[asterisk-users] Re: Re: FW: Peter Dicks Chairman ofSportingbet
PLCisarrested at JFK!!
Steven
asterisk at tescogroup.com
Fri Sep 8 13:46:52 MST 2006
Because the Telco is government owned.
They are the PSTN, so only they can route and charge for PSTN calls.
Making a call from an Indian office to a US office over VOIP is legal.
Forwarding a PSTN call over that same VOIP trunk is illegal.
--
--
Steven
http://www.glimasoutheast.org
"Brandon Galbraith" <brandon.galbraith at gmail.com> wrote in message news:366100670609081306m7d0db076k61760c33cc0737e6 at mail.gmail.com...
Steve,
Forgive my ignorance, but why does India institute that policy?
-brandon
On 9/8/06, Steven < asterisk at tescogroup.com> wrote:
Even in India, you can use VOIP for overseas calls coming from your own company.
You just can't sell services that allow people to call a PSTN number and then have their call sent over VOIP to another location.
--
--
Steven
http://www.glimasoutheast.org
"Alex Robar" <alex.robar at gmail.com> wrote in message news:9ffdc7570609081054m7832025dg5c2a9c1c35c14792 at mail.gmail.com ...
The biggest problem with your argument is that VoIP is not illegal anywhere. Voice over _internet_ is, but voice over the Internet protocol is not. Anyone in China is free to setup Asterisk to use within their offices. There's nothing illegal about it. It's using VoIP, but it's not transmitting it outside of your office. It's the calls that leave your office that matter... They're the ones that governments can tax.
...And if what Mark Spencer is doing isn't illegal, your post it most certainly OT... And definitely flame bait. Why troll about the US? There's US hating forums in a lot of places, go post your rants there.
Alex
On 9/8/06, Dean Collins <Dean at collins.net.pr> wrote:
Yes I am aware he is the second executive to be arrested......the first
is still yet to be charged and is still awaiting trial and has fallen
off the face of the general media which is why I'm 'motivated' to draw
attention and outrage to this second case.
Yes you are right it does belong off this list but with so many people
on this list doing international business on the internet (including
yourself by the looks of your own voip carrier website).
So when someone from China places an order on your website for a voip
service, you agree that it would be ok for the Chinese government to let
the Chinese customer go free but for them to arrest you and any other
directors muWare?
(also lets not forget that the WTO has already ruled that USA government
is in breach with their court case back in March).
I'm very curious about your thoughts or will you prefer to stick your
head in the sand and pretend that the USA lives in a bubble on the
planet earth and would prefer that Walmart not do business
internationally or that the Ford motor car you drive not use Australian
steel etc etc.
Cheers,
Dean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com [mailto: asterisk-users-
> bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Jay Milk
> Sent: Friday, 8 September 2006 1:22 PM
> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> Subject: Re: {Fraud?} RE: [asterisk-users] FW: Peter Dicks Chairman
ofSportingbet
> PLC isarrested at JFK!!
>
> Why don't you keep political diatribe to your blog? This is OT, and
> quite frankly it displays that you have less than perfect grasp on
reality.
> Mark Spencer makes a software product that is perfectly legal to use
> anywhere in the world, even in India (as long as it stays within a
> building and used as a PBX only). It's the user's responsibility to
> understand and follow local law in utilizing this software. By the
same
> token, a vehicle is legal to use for most, but it becomes a weapon
when
> you intentionally or neglectfully run someone over.
> Peter Dicks was operating a business that was offering certain
services
> that are illegal in the place where he offered them. If he was
arrested
> the moment he entered the US, then this was investigated before, and
he
> was asked to cease offering these illegal services in the US, but has
> refused to do so -- if you followed the news as enthusiastically as
you
> post OT messages, then you would have realized that Dicks was the
> *second* executive that was arrested. This should have come as no
> surprise to Dicks or his lawyers.
> So, now we're seeing the guy not as a clueless tourist, but a
> law-defying visitor. He's done something that is illegal, has refused
to
> stop, and was dumb enough to step into the jurisdiction of his crime.
Is
> there a problem with that? Because if there is, you need to start
> defending Columbian drug-lords and terrorists, too.
> This is fulfills my quote of OT posts for the day. Just had to say
> something in the face of such obvious stupidity.
>
> Dean Collins wrote:
> >
> > Exactly so why aren't they trying to arrest the 50 million people in
> > the USA who have gambled online?
> >
> > Mark (as far as I know) isn't actively checking with asterisk users
> > for what country they are in so therefore in the reciprocal eyes of
> > the indian government he is similarly breaking the law.
> >
> > Basically what the USA government is charging Peter Dicks with is
not
> > being a global policeman to enforce a USA law (which the WTO has
> > already ruled is illegal back in March
> > http://www.internetnews.com/ec-news/article.php/3434111 ).
> >
> > The USA government can't enforce it's principals on the rest of the
> > world otherwise they are no better than the terrorists who are
trying
> > to impose Sharia Law on the world.
> >
> > I'm trying terribly not to take this discussion any further Off
Topic
> > but realistically we live in a global society and the USA is
> > overstepping it's limits on international trade here. I appreciate
> > this isn't the best forum for it but this has much wider
ramifications
> > for those of us who do business internationally in and with the USA.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Dean
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com
> > [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com ] *On Behalf Of *Alex
Robar
> > *Sent:* Friday, 8 September 2006 12:45 PM
> > *To:* Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> > *Subject:* Re: [asterisk-users] FW: Peter Dicks Chairman of
> > Sportingbet PLC isarrested at JFK!!
> >
> > The guy was arrested because he was conciously allowing US citizens
to
> > gamble online, something illegal in the US at this point. He ran a
> > business who's sole profit source came from this illegal activity.
> > Spencer is an entirely different situation. He's not running a
> > business in which he provides VoIP to places where it is illegal.
He's
> > running a business the develops software that enables VoIP...
There's
> > a big difference there. If someone takes the software and uses it in
a
> > place where VoIP is illegal, that does not make Spencer responsible.
> > Think of it along the lines of BitTorrent software. The software
isn't
> > illegal - it has valid uses - but it _could_ be used for something
> > illegal. All that means is that the user of the software has
commited
> > a crime; Not the developer.
> >
> > Alex
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* Dean Collins
> > *Sent:* Friday, 8 September 2006 10:22 AM
> > *To:* 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
> > *Subject:* FW: Peter Dicks Chairman of Sportingbet PLC is
arrested
> > at JFK!!
> >
> > I'm sending this to the asterisk list - consciously knowing it
> > will piss some people off but this is the *most important
business
> > issue of the day* for anyone doing business in or with a US
company.
> >
> > Oh and before anyone on this list thinks of calling this OT -
how
> > about Mark Spencer being arrested while travelling in a country
> > like India or the Middle East that has banned VOIP services
(which
> > is still illegal because they cant tax it of course).
> >
> > I don't know what you are going to be able to do with this
> > information but this has to be discussed as it affect the future
> > of international commerce when dealing with the USA.
> >
> > Best intentions,
> >
> > Dean
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* Dean Collins
> > *Sent:* Friday, 8 September 2006 10:15 AM
> > *Subject:* Peter Dicks Chairman of Sportingbet PLC is arrested
at
> > JFK!!
> >
> > This is bullshit.
> >
> > I don't know how to effectively express my outrage over this
> > action by the US government.
> >
> > Check out these links for background info;
> >
> > www.nytimes.com
> >
>
<http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/08/technology/08gamble.html?_r=1&oref=sl
ogin
> >
> >
> > money.cnn.com
> >
>
<http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/08/news/international/bc.leisure.sportingb
et.reut/?p
> ostversion=2006090808>
> >
> > today.reuters.co.uk
> >
>
< http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=internetNews&stor
yID=200
> 6-09-07T160138Z_01_N07242747_RTRIDST_0_OUKIN-UK-LEISURE-
> SPORTINGBET-DICKS.XML>
> >
> > www.businessweek.com
> >
>
<http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8K02SM85.htm?sub=apn_euro
> _up&chan=gb>
> >
> > So basically we have a UK citizen, operating a UK business
> > (sportingbetplc.com board)
> >
>
< http://www.sportingbetplc.com/pages/15/Our+Board.stm?PHPSESSID=15ba3131
> b6035fc855dabdde5c19b246>
> > who the moment he steps foot into the USA is arrested, not for
> > crimes he committed but for crimes committted by US citizens.
> >
> > Oh and arrested under ambiguous Louisiana law, that defines all
> > interstate gaming as illegal.
> >
> > I cant wait for the chairman of the NY Times to be arrested on a
> > visit to China because chinese citizens were reading copies of
the
> > NY Times on the internet.
> >
> > Oh and as for visiting 'unfriendly' countries, how about if
Castro
> > started shooting american tourists he found in Cuba for 'crimes
of
> > treason' in carrying US dollars in their wallets?
> >
> > This is insane America. When are you going to wake up and begin
to
> > be a good 'world citizen'?
> >
> > You cant just arrest people for 'crimes against the state' that
> > dont even occur in your country........isn't that what
terrorists
> > do? Impose their will against the world at large.
> >
> > I keep hoping I will wake up and the insanity will end? it's
like
> > a bad dream.
> > It's getting hard to tell who is the bad guys anymore.
> >
> >
http://deancollinsblog.blogspot.com/2006/09/peter-dicks-chairman-of-
> sportingbet.html
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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> >
>
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Alex Robar
alex.robar at gmail.com
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Brandon Galbraith
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AIM: brandong00
Voice: 630.400.6992
"A true pirate starts drinking before the sun hits the yard-arm. Yarrrr. --thelost"
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