[Asterisk-Users] Sipura 3000 FXO

[Joe Greco]

> On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 11:20:44 -0500 (CDT), Joe Greco <jgreco at ns.sol.net> wrote:
> > That seems like a bunch of anti-Windows FUD.
> 
> Funny you should say that for Windoze is in itself the primeval
> manifestation of FUD.

Actually, I'll leave that up to crappy unprofessional programmers who are
not rigorous about their work.  Your average embedded device is much more
of a minefield than a Windows box, and yet I routinely see extremely high
quality implementations of software for such devices.  While I'm not fond
of systems that don't have a good design/admin/security strategy, there
is nothing inherently wrong with designing a system that way - but you
really, really need to have dotted all your I's and crossed all your T's,
and most "DOS programmers" are sloppy about that.

Good code writers will inspect their code for untrapped conditions.  Why
do I trap weird error conditions when I'm writing UNIX code?  It's simply
the right thing to do.  Yes, the program would otherwise just wind up
dumping core, harmlessly, but that's not right.  Testing it with garbage
data and looking for boundary conditions is just part of the job.

"DOS programmers" frequently seem to work on the opposite theory...  if
their program can be run all the way through without crashing, then it
must be completely right.

Regardless, there was nothing unusual about the run of the Sipura-provided
updater that I could see.  I have no reason to expect it was a problem with
the PC.  Further speculation that it was somehow the PC would be additional
FUD.

> > > There should be a factory setting that puts the
> > > device on a certain private IP so you can just point your browser at
> > > that and configure the SPA without having to use an analog phone.
> > 
> > That is actually a lot more complicated..
> 
> why? you wouldn't have to use this route if you didn't want to.

Well, coming as a "factory setting", you actually wouldn't get a choice,
now, would you? 

> >  you want people to have to
> > mess with existing network setups?
> 
> Well, I have configured many devices that have a factory default
> 192.168.x.x address and it's a very easy process ...
> 
> 1) plug a LAN cable into the device and the other end into a Powerbook

OH!  So now you also need to have ANOTHER computer, and a laptop at that,
laying around.

Great strategy.

> 2) click on the System Preferences icon, then the Network icon
> 3) choose "New Location", give it some name, set default gateway to
> the factory default IP, and choose an IP address in the same subnet
> for the Powerbook, then click "Apply"
> 4) open a browser, point it at the factory default IP and configure the device.
> 5) when the device is rebooted, plug both the device and the Powerbook
> into a hub, then change the Location on the Powerbook back to whatever
> the local LAN setting is called.
> 
> The whole process will be a few minutes and most of the time will be
> spent on the actual configuration of the device.
> 
> On the other hand, it took me a two hour train ride (both ways) to go
> and borrow an analog phone to plug into the SPA so I could assign it
> an initial IP address. Bollocks.

It'll be anywhere from a several day to a multi-week wait if you need to 
order that Powerbook from Apple.  

Quite frankly, there are a lot more POTS phones in the world than laptops.
You might have been in Upper Siberia where they're in short supply, but in
most places in the world, you can go down to the local store and buy a
cheap one for $10.

You also don't need to reconfigure the phone in order to make that happen.

Anyone who has ever done technical customer support will tell you that what
you are suggesting is insanely complicated for the average user.

> > Our Windows PC mounts all add-on
> > apps from a file server, because I don't trust Microsoft with any amount
> > of data.  That means we /have/ to be attached to the FS in order to run
> > Mozilla or Opera, so if we change the PC's settings to accomodate your
> > proposed model, then we have to change the fileserver as well, including
> > all its ACL's, etc., etc...  and then we have to change it all back, else
> > we can't use the Internet.
> 
> Well, as I said, I wouldn't recommend using Windoze toyz for real
> work. 

I wouldn't, either.  However, to imply that it *has* to be the Windows box
at fault is just ridiculous.  Sipura obviously expects that a Windows box
is quite able to handle the task; they wouldn't have designed and
distributed a one-step firmware updater if that wasn't the case.

> Then again, I think that a Windoze notebook will probably be
> able to work without your file server and the process I described
> above will be not all too different on a Windoze notebook.

So, I take it that Sipura will begin shipping notebooks along with these
units, since one is now required under your new installation model?

Really, wouldn't it be simpler for you to set up a DHCP server on your
notebook?  You already did all that reconfiguring and putzing around to
make your proposed configuration model work.  Installing a DHCP server
is about that same amount of work.

> In my view, SPA's are likely to be deployed somewhere in the field
> where somebody will go and that somebody is likely to have a notebook
> computer with them to do their job. That remote site may be a company
> with all digital phones, no analog phones.

A company with all digital phones is probably big enough that they're also
configuring their network via a DHCP server, so the initial configuration 
wouldn't be an issue.

A company with all digital phones is not likely to be ordering one analog 
phone line and then buying a consumer-grade device to translate.

Even so, most companies do have a fax machine, which is quite sufficient to
do the programming, as long as it's got a call progress speaker.

> > Sipura's model is pretty reasonable.  Most networks that have VoIP stuff
> > seem to have a DHCP server.  Most people can dig up a POTS phone to
> > configure it if they don't have the DHCP server.
> 
> Most companies in Japan have digital phones, even the lousiest PBX
> from NTT with a maximum of only 8 extensions is all-digital. I have
> seen many companies without any analog phone, not even a fax as they
> use a computer based fax or a fax service.

So, note to self, if configuring Sipuras in Japan, we can:

1) Make sure the install network supports DHCP, or

2) Bring along a cheap $10 POTS phone, or

3) Bring along a laptop with DHCP server, or

4) Do what you suggest, which is getting Sipura to set a factory default
   of a known private IP address, and then be sure to bring along a laptop,
   configure it so that it can talk to that IP address, go log into the
   Sipura, manually change its IP configuration to the needed address, then
   reconfigure the laptop back to whatever it had previously been set up to,
   and of course make sure you don't hook up more than one unconfigured
   Sipura at a time.

Which three of these are simpler.  Hmm.  :-)

> But I guess the SPA is designed for the US only anyway. That would
> explain the obsession with analog telephones. I personally look
> forward to an analog phone free environment.

Don't we all.  That doesn't mean that it's not reasonable to carry around
a buttset for those times when you need to poke at an analog circuit.
I've been going for the IP on everything strategy for more than a decade.
I'm pleased to be seeing this convergence on IP...  we run all sorts of
stuff on IP now.  Our UPS's are IP.  Our printers are IP.  Our surv cams
are IP.  Our terminal adapters are IP.  Remote management of servers, 
power, KVM-over-IP, etc.  Phones are long overdue.  ;-)

> Now, if Sipura would provide a factory set SIP login on which I could
> connect to the configuration IVR menu from a SIP phone out of the box,
> then I'd say, yes, that'd be neat.

That'd be nice, too.  However, the biggest problem would seem to be
establishing IP connectivity to begin with, and the unit seems to have
two different reasonable solutions for that.  Once you get it on the
network, Web based access is probably quite reasonable.  I'd like to
see a serial port as well, myself, but that's many years of personal
preference for OOB management.

> > address.  But I sure wouldn't want that solution to replace the POTS
> > configuration.
> 
> nobody said "replace".

Whatever.

... JG
-- 
Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net
"We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I
won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN)
With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.