[Asterisk-Users] Sipura 3000 FXO

Sat Oct 2 12:34:18 MST 2004

On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 13:12:10 -0500 (CDT), Joe Greco <jgreco at ns.sol.net> wrote:

> A company with all digital phones is probably big enough that they're also
> configuring their network via a DHCP server,

As I said, the crappiest PBX from NTT that maxes out at 8 phones is
all-digital. I wouldn't consider a company with 1 to 8 employees a big
company.

Network? Most of the companies that approach us about IP telephony or
open source PBXes don't have a network. They have a single PC plugged
in to a DSL modem and the others are "connected" by "sneakernet" using
USB Flash memory disks.

> A company with all digital phones is not likely to be ordering one analog
> phone line and then buying a consumer-grade device to translate.

You really shouldn't make assumptions about places you haven't been
to. The world is a lot bigger than just the US and many things outside
of US borders are a lot different.

A small company using the smallest PBX from NTT (which is all digital)
will likely want to save long distance charges and if only because
they already got ripped off on the 10 year PBX lease. For that they
are likely to order IP phone service, which in Japan is not what you
would think IP phone service should be. Instead, it is an analog phone
jack in a ADSL modem. Now, that company has a problem because none of
their phones will work on the analog line that comes out of the DSL
modem.

They can buy an analog FXO interface board and have NTT "upgrade"
their PBX, but that might cost them a few thousand dollars over the
remainder of their leasing contract.

They could buy an analog phone, yes, but then only the person at the
desk where that phone is placed will be able to make calls using the
cheaper "IP" phone service. They are looking for ways to distribute
that one line so that it can be shared amonst at least three or four
employees.

That's the point when they call us. We then tell them that "real" IP
phones, not analog phones are the answer to the distribution problem
but that they need a little converter box.

That's where devices like the Sipura-3000 come in. So, now we have
just spent an immense effort on re-educating them on how universal IP
phones are and all the rest of it and the first thing that happens is
that an analog phone is needed to configure that converter box.

That sort of thing doesn't go down well with Japanese customers. They
think you are not telling them the whole story and that you have
something to hide. Setting up servers is not a good idea either
because they only bought into that little converter box for its
simplicity not requiring big apparatus.

As for the notebook, we will need that anyway to configure the IP
phones, don't we?

As for keeping an analog phone around, sure, now that I know, I can do
that, but I would rather do without because I have already got enough
junk in my office. Space is very much constrained in Japan. So you are
happy for every piece of garbage that you can get rid of.

> Even so, most companies do have a fax machine, which is quite sufficient to
> do the programming, as long as it's got a call progress speaker.\

I already told you that fax machines in small companies are going out
of fashion. This is because the analog line that the fax is connected
to represents a value of 700 USD, which is what a line costs when you
purchase it. If you sell the line on the second hand market, you can
get some of that money back. If you start a new company, you would
rather avoid that cost.

Then again, a fax machine takes away space which is scarce over here.
A PC is there anyway and a scanner takes less space as it can be put
in a drawer or on a pull-out shelf.

> So, note to self, if configuring Sipuras in Japan, we can:
> 
> 1) Make sure the install network supports DHCP, or
> 
> 2) Bring along a cheap $10 POTS phone, or

More like $20 and that one didn't actually work on the SPA, maybe
because it only does pulse dialling.

> 3) Bring along a laptop with DHCP server, or
> 
> 4) Do what you suggest, which is getting Sipura to set a factory default
>    of a known private IP address, and then be sure to bring along a laptop,
>    configure it so that it can talk to that IP address, go log into the
>    Sipura, manually change its IP configuration to the needed address, then
>    reconfigure the laptop back to whatever it had previously been set up to,
>    and of course make sure you don't hook up more than one unconfigured
>    Sipura at a time.
> 
> Which three of these are simpler.  Hmm.  :-)

If you have a Mac, 4 is the simplest. Takes about 5 seconds total and
it thus far more convenient than carrying an analog phone on an
overcrowded Tokyo commuter train.

Perhaps as you make it sound so difficult, perhaps if I was
unfortunate enough to have to use Windoze, then I might find it far
more convenient to carry excess baggage on an overcrowded Tokyo train,
too. But then I am lucky enough to be totally Windoze free, so I
wouldn't know.

> > I personally look
> > forward to an analog phone free environment.
> 
> Don't we all.  That doesn't mean that it's not reasonable to carry around
> a buttset for those times when you need to poke at an analog circuit.

I guess I have to convince one of those NTT engineers to "lose" one of
those tiny pocket ones they carry around. Maybe one of them will trade
it for a Grandstream. You should see their faces when they try to find
an RJ-11 on an IP phone that gives them a dial tone without a phone
wire being plugged in :-)

> > Now, if Sipura would provide a factory set SIP login on which I could
> > connect to the configuration IVR menu from a SIP phone out of the box,
> > then I'd say, yes, that'd be neat.
> 
> That'd be nice, too.  However, the biggest problem would seem to be
> establishing IP connectivity to begin with,

Take a look at how an Xserve is bootstrapped for the first time using
a Powerbook as a GUI terminal on the Ethernet. That works without any
network configuration. All you do is put the OSX install CD into the
Xserve, press some button on the front panel while you reboot and have
the Powerbook run the setup assistant. It's amazing to see how easy
things can be even though they seemed so difficult to do. All it takes
is a company with the right mind set, like say BMW, Apple, Sony, Wally
Yachts, most coffe machine manufacturers etc. Unfortunately, Sipura is
not amongst them, nor is M$, nor are most VCR manufacturers.

> I'd like to
> see a serial port as well, myself, but that's many years of personal
> preference for OOB management.

Indeed, but that would make the device at least $2 more expensive ;-)

> > > address.  But I sure wouldn't want that solution to replace the POTS
> > > configuration.
> >
> > nobody said "replace".
> 
> Whatever.

what I meant was, there is no reason why the unit couldn't allow you
to change the factory default IP address or DHCP on/off from an analog
phone anyway, if you are so inclined to use that route.

rgds
benjk

-- 
Sunrise Telephone Systems, 9F Shibuya Daikyo Bldg., 1-13-5 Shibuya,
Tokyo, Japan.

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