[asterisk-dev] Mailing List Future
Henning Westerholt
hw at gilawa.com
Fri Jan 5 03:49:04 CST 2024
Hello,
using a different reply-to address as the from address is a valid use case and used from other people. For example e.g. for support or sales communication.
I am participating since many years on mailing lists and never had the need to do filtering on a domain mail server level.
Practically speaking its necessary to accept all e-mail from *.gmail.com similar to office365 etc... How would one run a business otherwise? In my opinion its not feasible to do a filtering on domain level.
In my opinion its not appropriate for an ISP to block e-mail from domains, when I don't have control over it.
Cheers,
Henning
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk-dev <asterisk-dev-bounces at lists.digium.com> On Behalf Of
> Paul Kudla
> Sent: Freitag, 5. Januar 2024 10:15
> To: asterisk at phreaknet.org; Asterisk Developers Mailing List <asterisk-
> dev at lists.digium.com>
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-dev] Mailing List Future
>
>
> here's another example of the headers
>
> Return-Path: <bounce+123194+6+8107350+12915545 at groups.io>
> Delivered-To: paul at scom.ca
> Received: from ns2.scom.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1])
> by mail18.scom.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3360C31E1D5
> for <paul at scom.ca>; Fri, 5 Jan 2024 03:27:03 -0500 (EST)
> Received-SPF: Pass (sender SPF authorized) identity=mailfrom; client-
> ip=66.175.222.108; helo=mail02.groups.io; envelope-
> from=bounce+123194+6+8107350+12915545 at groups.io;
> receiver=paul at scom.ca
> Received: from mail02.groups.io (mail02.groups.io [66.175.222.108])
> by mail19.scom.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D51E30253C
> for <paul at scom.ca>; Thu, 4 Jan 2024 08:29:33 -0500 (EST)
> DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256;
> bh=y4BuxIEsZ+nEJT8jmUWIi8SuuvrSyAgCuJ/3A0k8qhc=;
> c=relaxed/simple; d=groups.io;
>
> h=Subject:To:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-
> To:Message-ID:Precedence:List-Subscribe:List-Help:Sender:List-Id:Mailing-
> List:Delivered-To:Reply-To:List-Unsubscribe-Post:List-Unsubscribe:Content-
> Type;
> s=20140610; t=1704374973; v=1;
>
> b=gFV0zZSE0niKgRyXFVPIHg4Svc2YUeefZhB8dlQ23dzZcH0RaFRA7sjVaHu5m
> DFFcWTv6xGB
>
> VAdK/KUxukNQkfbr4zyJFJi4ECdmojpenOoJ+k/N1t2JNz9Z/rifwzLrv6UzIsOp/k
> bLrdMTPpt
> X3g4M81hZgnTAxLDKmAF0ZJQ=
> X-Received: by 127.0.0.2 with SMTP id 6UMxYY8108685xBwiaIr8due; Thu,
> 04 Jan 2024 05:29:33 -0800
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-dev] Happy new year 2024 and welcome to the mailing
> list
> To: asterisk-dev at groups.io
> From: bounce at groups.io
> X-Originating-Location: Pretoria, Gauteng, ZA (165.16.202.234)
> X-Originating-Platform: Linux Firefox 115
> User-Agent: GROUPS.IO Web Poster
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2024 05:28:29 -0800
> References: <bd6f46c4-021a-4a91-b642-f2ab06ac5ce0 at yandex.com>
> In-Reply-To: <bd6f46c4-021a-4a91-b642-f2ab06ac5ce0 at yandex.com>
> Message-ID: <11912.1704374909817607240 at groups.io>
> Precedence: Bulk
> List-Subscribe: <mailto:asterisk-dev+subscribe at groups.io>
> List-Help: <mailto:asterisk-dev+help at groups.io>
> Sender: asterisk-dev at groups.io
> List-Id: <asterisk-dev.groups.io>
> Mailing-List: list asterisk-dev at groups.io; contact
> asterisk-dev+owner at groups.io
> Old-Delivered-To: mailing list asterisk-dev at groups.io
> Reply-To: asterisk-dev at groups.io
> List-Unsubscribe-Post: List-Unsubscribe=One-Click
> List-Unsubscribe:
> <https://groups.io/g/asterisk-
> dev/leave/12915545/8107350/1648649566/plugh>
> X-Gm-Message-State: IW5txfHJ7hxkIhBAzdvhZj1Kx8107350AA=
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MyK3xsRbdj9XTGHGzBSm"
> X-SCOM-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more
> information
> X-SCOM-MailScanner-ID: 6D51E30253C.A9D49
> X-SCOM-MailScanner: Found to be clean
> X-SCOM-MailScanner-From:
> bounce+123194+6+8107350+12915545 at groups.io
> X-Spam-Status: No
> X-TMDA-Confirm-Done: 1704375007.41110.adcb74
> X-TMDA-Released: Fri, 05 Jan 2024 03:27:02 -0500
> X-TMDA-CGI: 10.0.0.5 (Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64;
> rv:109.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/115.0)
>
>
> --MyK3xsRbdj9XTGHGzBSm
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Time to get in on the action ... would appreciate some form of reply to thi=
> s to see what happens at mail-system level too.
>
>
> Have A Happy Friday !!!
>
> Thanks - Paul Kudla (Manager SCOM.CA Internet Services Inc.)
>
>
> Scom.ca Internet Services <http://www.scom.ca>
> 004-1009 Byron Street South
> Whitby, Ontario - Canada
> L1N 4S3
>
> Toronto 416.642.7266
> Main 1.866.411.7266
> Fax 1.888.892.7266
> Email paul at scom.ca
>
> On 1/4/2024 9:06 AM, asterisk at phreaknet.org wrote:
> >
> > Could you point out a specific message where this is the case?
> > I just looked at a few messages and I don't see bounce at groups.io anywhere.
> > The MAIL FROM address used in the SMTP transaction is a VERP-style
> > address, unique for every recipient on a list. This way if there is a
> > bounce, groups.io knows who bounced and can automatically unsubscribe
> > them, without reading the bounce message at all.
> > Even the confirmation email I got uses a VERP-style address.
> >
> > The From headers are sometimes manipulated as you may have noticed, as
> > when domains are configured with a DMARC policy, groups.io will rewrite
> > the From header so it still looks almost the same but is using their
> > domain.
> > The old list did not do this, so to Josh's point about mailing list
> > messages frequently going to spam, that may have been due to DMARC, and
> > so deliverability might increase with the new list since it's handling
> > it properly.
> >
> > There is a List-Id header that contains the address of the mailing list.
> > Perhaps you can use that in your filtering?
> > If you're really an ISP though, you should be allowing all groups.io
> > stuff to go through since there are a huge number of other lists there.
> >
> > On 1/4/2024 5:52 AM, Paul Kudla (SCOM.CA Internet Services Inc.) wrote:
> >>
> >> Good morning
> >>
> >> I got verified however the new mailing list is using
> >>
> >> Asterisk Development Team via groups.io <bounce at groups.io>
> >>
> >> note the bounce at groups.io
> >>
> >> should really be an asterisk email address
> >>
> >> if i open up groups.io (like msvc etc) then spam will flow
> >>
> >> i am an isp and apologise for the comments knowing you are doing you
> >> best, just letting you know some difficulties before they become a
> >> large scale issue
> >>
> >>
> >> Have A Happy Thursday !!!
> >>
> >> Thanks - Paul Kudla (Manager SCOM.CA Internet Services Inc.)
> >>
> >>
> >> Scom.ca Internet Services <http://www.scom.ca>
> >> 004-1009 Byron Street South
> >> Whitby, Ontario - Canada
> >> L1N 4S3
> >>
> >> Toronto 416.642.7266
> >> Main 1.866.411.7266
> >> Fax 1.888.892.7266
> >> Email paul at scom.ca
> >>
> >> On 2024-01-02 8:55 a.m., asterisk-dev-bounces at lists.digium.com wrote:
> >>> On 1/2/2024 5:55 AM, Joshua C. Colp wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 6:41 AM Paul Kudla <paul at scom.ca
> >>>> <mailto:paul at scom.ca>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Good morning
> >>>>
> >>>> Note I am unable to confirm my new email on the group because the
> >>>> email
> >>>> is using a blocked server ??
> >>>>
> >>>> mail19 01-02 05:35:51 {postfix.in <http://postfix.in>}
> >>>> [63603] (1871410360) Jan 02
> >>>> 05:35:51 mail19 postfix/smtpd[63603]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
> >>>>
> >>>> web01.groups.io <http://web01.groups.io>[66.175.222.12]: 454
> 4.7.1
> >>>> Service unavailable; Client
> >>>> host [66.175.222.12] blocked using
> >>>>
> >>>> bl.spamcop.net <http://bl.spamcop.net>; Blocked - see
> >>>> https://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?66.175.222.12;
> >>>>
> >>>> from=<confirmbounce+8107350+4201506166695547482 at groups.io
> >>>>
> <mailto:confirmbounce%2B8107350%2B4201506166695547482 at groups.i
> o>>
> >>>> to=<paul at scom.ca <mailto:paul at scom.ca>> proto=ESMTP
> >>>>
> >>>> helo=<mail01.groups.io <http://mail01.groups.io>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I did get the signup and also set my password but am unable to
> >>>> proceed.
> >>>>
> >>>> SPAMCOP.NET <http://SPAMCOP.NET> is super flexible (ie will track
> >>>> and update bad ip's on the
> >>>> fly within 24 hours, so to land on this list means a server has
> >>>> been
> >>>> very very bad.
> >>>>
> >>>> let me know if i can help further.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't think either of us can really help. Looking at groups.io
> >>>> <http://groups.io> posts this appears to happen sometimes, be it as
> >>>> a remaining result of a Yahoo migration that occurred in the past or
> >>>> from group admins adding email addresses for SpamCop spam traps in
> >>>> some capacity.
> >>>>
> >>>> InterLinked: You previously stated that most lists you've been on
> >>>> migrated to groups.io <http://groups.io>, has this been a problem
> >>>> for them and if so how did they approach it (if at all)?
> >>>
> >>> I have to be on at least 2 or 3 dozen groups.io lists at this point
> >>> and I've not really seen this be much of a problem. It haven't seen
> >>> it on any of my lists with 100+ members or really heard about it on
> >>> other lists. Occasionally, maybe a couple times a year, there are
> >>> *bounces* and I know groups.io will auto unsubscribe users if it gets
> >>> bounces to comply with email subscription policies and what not. I
> >>> don't have any specific experience with SpamCop, that isn't a service
> >>> I use on my mail servers.
> >>>
> >>> I think this is going to be inevitable to some extent with any hosted
> >>> mailing list. groups.io has a pool of IPs that they use but obviously
> >>> they are shared between lists. Digium has been self-hosting lists so
> >>> it hasn't had to worry about this in the past.
> >>>
> >>> groups.io also has an online portal where you can register and manage
> >>> groups, but that probably entails receiving an email at some point so
> >>> you might run into the same issue there if you can't receive email.
> >>>
> >>> Can you add the sender to your "safe senders" lists? IMO email
> >>> services that don't allow the spam rules to be overridden are
> >>> fundamentally flawed, but I realize you may not have control over
> >>> that or be able to switch services.
> >>>
> >>> It probably doesn't hurt to get in touch with the guy that runs
> >>> groups.io, here: https://groups.io/helpcenter. I and others have
> >>> reached out before for things and he's helpful and responsive.
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
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