[asterisk-dev] Mailing List Future
Paul Kudla
paul at scom.ca
Fri Jan 5 04:20:56 CST 2024
I think we are getting off track here,
email can come from anywhere
like mine when i send an email it comes from "Paul Kudla <paul at scom.ca>"
which is perfectly normal, if i sent an email from :
"Paul Kudla <paul at group.io>"
that would be wrong because the email address does not exist and would
eventually bounce on most system or more importantly get blocked in
someone's spam filter because it is unknown to the end user.
Again trying to help
the issue creeps in when a mail system tries to send with a different
send email address then what is in the headers.
My or any other system does not block ordinary email, and the tmda (in
my case) will trap it for approval. I can catch and kinda approve these
but its one at a time when headers get messed with.
The issues being found here is email from for example
Asterisk Developers Mailing List <asterisk-dev at lists.digium.com>
is now show as
Asterisk Developers Mailing List <asterisk-dev at group.io>
which in its self kinda correct but but group.io should really be a
proper domain related to asterisk like the
"<asterisk-dev at lists.digium.com"
was
fyi
Hope this clarifies, asterisk mailing list really needs to come from an
asterisk domain (or sub domain) NOT groups.io
can you get n asterisk.groups.io
(like the digium one? - lists.digium.com)
this would resolve to identy issues.
Have A Happy Friday !!!
Thanks - Paul Kudla (Manager SCOM.CA Internet Services Inc.)
Scom.ca Internet Services <http://www.scom.ca>
004-1009 Byron Street South
Whitby, Ontario - Canada
L1N 4S3
Toronto 416.642.7266
Main 1.866.411.7266
Fax 1.888.892.7266
Email paul at scom.ca
On 1/5/2024 4:49 AM, Henning Westerholt wrote:
> Hello,
>
> using a different reply-to address as the from address is a valid use case and used from other people. For example e.g. for support or sales communication.
>
> I am participating since many years on mailing lists and never had the need to do filtering on a domain mail server level.
>
> Practically speaking its necessary to accept all e-mail from *.gmail.com similar to office365 etc... How would one run a business otherwise? In my opinion its not feasible to do a filtering on domain level.
>
> In my opinion its not appropriate for an ISP to block e-mail from domains, when I don't have control over it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Henning
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: asterisk-dev <asterisk-dev-bounces at lists.digium.com> On Behalf Of
>> Paul Kudla
>> Sent: Freitag, 5. Januar 2024 10:15
>> To: asterisk at phreaknet.org; Asterisk Developers Mailing List <asterisk-
>> dev at lists.digium.com>
>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-dev] Mailing List Future
>>
>>
>> here's another example of the headers
>>
>> Return-Path: <bounce+123194+6+8107350+12915545 at groups.io>
>> Delivered-To: paul at scom.ca
>> Received: from ns2.scom.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1])
>> by mail18.scom.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3360C31E1D5
>> for <paul at scom.ca>; Fri, 5 Jan 2024 03:27:03 -0500 (EST)
>> Received-SPF: Pass (sender SPF authorized) identity=mailfrom; client-
>> ip=66.175.222.108; helo=mail02.groups.io; envelope-
>> from=bounce+123194+6+8107350+12915545 at groups.io;
>> receiver=paul at scom.ca
>> Received: from mail02.groups.io (mail02.groups.io [66.175.222.108])
>> by mail19.scom.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D51E30253C
>> for <paul at scom.ca>; Thu, 4 Jan 2024 08:29:33 -0500 (EST)
>> DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256;
>> bh=y4BuxIEsZ+nEJT8jmUWIi8SuuvrSyAgCuJ/3A0k8qhc=;
>> c=relaxed/simple; d=groups.io;
>>
>> h=Subject:To:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-
>> To:Message-ID:Precedence:List-Subscribe:List-Help:Sender:List-Id:Mailing-
>> List:Delivered-To:Reply-To:List-Unsubscribe-Post:List-Unsubscribe:Content-
>> Type;
>> s=20140610; t=1704374973; v=1;
>>
>> b=gFV0zZSE0niKgRyXFVPIHg4Svc2YUeefZhB8dlQ23dzZcH0RaFRA7sjVaHu5m
>> DFFcWTv6xGB
>>
>> VAdK/KUxukNQkfbr4zyJFJi4ECdmojpenOoJ+k/N1t2JNz9Z/rifwzLrv6UzIsOp/k
>> bLrdMTPpt
>> X3g4M81hZgnTAxLDKmAF0ZJQ=
>> X-Received: by 127.0.0.2 with SMTP id 6UMxYY8108685xBwiaIr8due; Thu,
>> 04 Jan 2024 05:29:33 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-dev] Happy new year 2024 and welcome to the mailing
>> list
>> To: asterisk-dev at groups.io
>> From: bounce at groups.io
>> X-Originating-Location: Pretoria, Gauteng, ZA (165.16.202.234)
>> X-Originating-Platform: Linux Firefox 115
>> User-Agent: GROUPS.IO Web Poster
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2024 05:28:29 -0800
>> References: <bd6f46c4-021a-4a91-b642-f2ab06ac5ce0 at yandex.com>
>> In-Reply-To: <bd6f46c4-021a-4a91-b642-f2ab06ac5ce0 at yandex.com>
>> Message-ID: <11912.1704374909817607240 at groups.io>
>> Precedence: Bulk
>> List-Subscribe: <mailto:asterisk-dev+subscribe at groups.io>
>> List-Help: <mailto:asterisk-dev+help at groups.io>
>> Sender: asterisk-dev at groups.io
>> List-Id: <asterisk-dev.groups.io>
>> Mailing-List: list asterisk-dev at groups.io; contact
>> asterisk-dev+owner at groups.io
>> Old-Delivered-To: mailing list asterisk-dev at groups.io
>> Reply-To: asterisk-dev at groups.io
>> List-Unsubscribe-Post: List-Unsubscribe=One-Click
>> List-Unsubscribe:
>> <https://groups.io/g/asterisk-
>> dev/leave/12915545/8107350/1648649566/plugh>
>> X-Gm-Message-State: IW5txfHJ7hxkIhBAzdvhZj1Kx8107350AA=
>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MyK3xsRbdj9XTGHGzBSm"
>> X-SCOM-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more
>> information
>> X-SCOM-MailScanner-ID: 6D51E30253C.A9D49
>> X-SCOM-MailScanner: Found to be clean
>> X-SCOM-MailScanner-From:
>> bounce+123194+6+8107350+12915545 at groups.io
>> X-Spam-Status: No
>> X-TMDA-Confirm-Done: 1704375007.41110.adcb74
>> X-TMDA-Released: Fri, 05 Jan 2024 03:27:02 -0500
>> X-TMDA-CGI: 10.0.0.5 (Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64;
>> rv:109.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/115.0)
>>
>>
>> --MyK3xsRbdj9XTGHGzBSm
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>> Time to get in on the action ... would appreciate some form of reply to thi=
>> s to see what happens at mail-system level too.
>>
>>
>> Have A Happy Friday !!!
>>
>> Thanks - Paul Kudla (Manager SCOM.CA Internet Services Inc.)
>>
>>
>> Scom.ca Internet Services <http://www.scom.ca>
>> 004-1009 Byron Street South
>> Whitby, Ontario - Canada
>> L1N 4S3
>>
>> Toronto 416.642.7266
>> Main 1.866.411.7266
>> Fax 1.888.892.7266
>> Email paul at scom.ca
>>
>> On 1/4/2024 9:06 AM, asterisk at phreaknet.org wrote:
>>>
>>> Could you point out a specific message where this is the case?
>>> I just looked at a few messages and I don't see bounce at groups.io anywhere.
>>> The MAIL FROM address used in the SMTP transaction is a VERP-style
>>> address, unique for every recipient on a list. This way if there is a
>>> bounce, groups.io knows who bounced and can automatically unsubscribe
>>> them, without reading the bounce message at all.
>>> Even the confirmation email I got uses a VERP-style address.
>>>
>>> The From headers are sometimes manipulated as you may have noticed, as
>>> when domains are configured with a DMARC policy, groups.io will rewrite
>>> the From header so it still looks almost the same but is using their
>>> domain.
>>> The old list did not do this, so to Josh's point about mailing list
>>> messages frequently going to spam, that may have been due to DMARC, and
>>> so deliverability might increase with the new list since it's handling
>>> it properly.
>>>
>>> There is a List-Id header that contains the address of the mailing list.
>>> Perhaps you can use that in your filtering?
>>> If you're really an ISP though, you should be allowing all groups.io
>>> stuff to go through since there are a huge number of other lists there.
>>>
>>> On 1/4/2024 5:52 AM, Paul Kudla (SCOM.CA Internet Services Inc.) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Good morning
>>>>
>>>> I got verified however the new mailing list is using
>>>>
>>>> Asterisk Development Team via groups.io <bounce at groups.io>
>>>>
>>>> note the bounce at groups.io
>>>>
>>>> should really be an asterisk email address
>>>>
>>>> if i open up groups.io (like msvc etc) then spam will flow
>>>>
>>>> i am an isp and apologise for the comments knowing you are doing you
>>>> best, just letting you know some difficulties before they become a
>>>> large scale issue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have A Happy Thursday !!!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks - Paul Kudla (Manager SCOM.CA Internet Services Inc.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Scom.ca Internet Services <http://www.scom.ca>
>>>> 004-1009 Byron Street South
>>>> Whitby, Ontario - Canada
>>>> L1N 4S3
>>>>
>>>> Toronto 416.642.7266
>>>> Main 1.866.411.7266
>>>> Fax 1.888.892.7266
>>>> Email paul at scom.ca
>>>>
>>>> On 2024-01-02 8:55 a.m., asterisk-dev-bounces at lists.digium.com wrote:
>>>>> On 1/2/2024 5:55 AM, Joshua C. Colp wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 6:41 AM Paul Kudla <paul at scom.ca
>>>>>> <mailto:paul at scom.ca>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good morning
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note I am unable to confirm my new email on the group because the
>>>>>> email
>>>>>> is using a blocked server ??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> mail19 01-02 05:35:51 {postfix.in <http://postfix.in>}
>>>>>> [63603] (1871410360) Jan 02
>>>>>> 05:35:51 mail19 postfix/smtpd[63603]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
>>>>>>
>>>>>> web01.groups.io <http://web01.groups.io>[66.175.222.12]: 454
>> 4.7.1
>>>>>> Service unavailable; Client
>>>>>> host [66.175.222.12] blocked using
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bl.spamcop.net <http://bl.spamcop.net>; Blocked - see
>>>>>> https://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?66.175.222.12;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> from=<confirmbounce+8107350+4201506166695547482 at groups.io
>>>>>>
>> <mailto:confirmbounce%2B8107350%2B4201506166695547482 at groups.i
>> o>>
>>>>>> to=<paul at scom.ca <mailto:paul at scom.ca>> proto=ESMTP
>>>>>>
>>>>>> helo=<mail01.groups.io <http://mail01.groups.io>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did get the signup and also set my password but am unable to
>>>>>> proceed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SPAMCOP.NET <http://SPAMCOP.NET> is super flexible (ie will track
>>>>>> and update bad ip's on the
>>>>>> fly within 24 hours, so to land on this list means a server has
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> very very bad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> let me know if i can help further.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think either of us can really help. Looking at groups.io
>>>>>> <http://groups.io> posts this appears to happen sometimes, be it as
>>>>>> a remaining result of a Yahoo migration that occurred in the past or
>>>>>> from group admins adding email addresses for SpamCop spam traps in
>>>>>> some capacity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> InterLinked: You previously stated that most lists you've been on
>>>>>> migrated to groups.io <http://groups.io>, has this been a problem
>>>>>> for them and if so how did they approach it (if at all)?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to be on at least 2 or 3 dozen groups.io lists at this point
>>>>> and I've not really seen this be much of a problem. It haven't seen
>>>>> it on any of my lists with 100+ members or really heard about it on
>>>>> other lists. Occasionally, maybe a couple times a year, there are
>>>>> *bounces* and I know groups.io will auto unsubscribe users if it gets
>>>>> bounces to comply with email subscription policies and what not. I
>>>>> don't have any specific experience with SpamCop, that isn't a service
>>>>> I use on my mail servers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is going to be inevitable to some extent with any hosted
>>>>> mailing list. groups.io has a pool of IPs that they use but obviously
>>>>> they are shared between lists. Digium has been self-hosting lists so
>>>>> it hasn't had to worry about this in the past.
>>>>>
>>>>> groups.io also has an online portal where you can register and manage
>>>>> groups, but that probably entails receiving an email at some point so
>>>>> you might run into the same issue there if you can't receive email.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you add the sender to your "safe senders" lists? IMO email
>>>>> services that don't allow the spam rules to be overridden are
>>>>> fundamentally flawed, but I realize you may not have control over
>>>>> that or be able to switch services.
>>>>>
>>>>> It probably doesn't hurt to get in touch with the guy that runs
>>>>> groups.io, here: https://groups.io/helpcenter. I and others have
>>>>> reached out before for things and he's helpful and responsive.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
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