[asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
Jim Capp
jcapp at anteil.com
Tue Dec 18 11:30:34 CST 2007
Steve,
I'm confused. Isn't the code that was developed related to the JIAX
already GPL and therefore should be returned to the community anyway?
Jim
Steve Totaro wrote:
> Dean,
>
> I wish it were mine to give back.
>
> I worked with/for a group. It is not my IP since it was not my code and
> even the stuff I did myself (not very useful anyways) was on contracted
> time. The contract was very specific about who owned the IP to any code
> developed. Technically, by contract I should not have any code in my
> possession at this point.
>
> The point is, the JIAX code could and has been easily modified to create
> a free Java web based IAX softphone if someone just did it. To me, that
> indicates lack of demand (in the opensource area anyways).
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Totaro
>
> Dean Collins wrote:
>
>> Steve,
>> I'm confused about why you decided not to use your development or offer
>> it back to the community?
>>
>> If you've got it and don't want to use it I'm sure there are some people
>> on the list that would like to see what you've done and implement it on
>> a no-support basis.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Dean Collins
>> Cognation Pty Ltd
>> dean at cognation.net
>> +1-212-203-4357
>> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-biz-
>>> bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2007 10:49 AM
>>> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
>>>
>>> Dean,
>>>
>>> I think you may be right on the money with JIAX and the real demand
>>>
>>>
>> for a
>>
>>
>>> web based phone. I worked with a group that "fixed" the freely
>>>
>>>
>> available
>>
>>
>>> JIAX code (by Mikael Magnusson http://www.hem.za.org/jiaxclient ) but
>>>
>>>
>> had
>>
>>
>>> no interest in giving the code back to wild, nor selling it. It did
>>>
>>>
>> not
>>
>>
>>> take a few good Java guys very long to get it working the same as
>>>
>>>
>> Mexuar's.
>>
>>
>>> I was able to compile a workign jar from source myself with a few
>>>
>>>
>> changes
>>
>>
>>> and I am not a Dev guy, let alone a Java guy at all (but it took me
>>>
>>>
>> the
>>
>>
>>> better part of week).
>>>
>>> I think that the demand is not really there (yet). Most real world
>>>
>>>
>> people
>>
>>
>>> would rather pick up a real phone and dial a toll free number than don
>>>
>>>
>> a
>>
>>
>>> headset with mic and make a call via browser. I think it has some wow
>>>
>>>
>> power
>>
>>
>>> to "our kind", but I think the average Joe would not use this until
>>> convergence is more complete to avoid putting on headphones (like a
>>> bluetooth link from PC to a hardphone or cell).
>>>
>>> It is similar to many companies that I consult for. The people in the
>>> company want to know the bare essentials to use the phones. Sometimes
>>>
>>>
>> the
>>
>>
>>> higher ups are interested in advanced functionality but more often
>>>
>>>
>> than not,
>>
>>
>>> they just want something to replace (insert phone system here) in
>>> functionality with a few remote phones or remote offices. During the
>>>
>>>
>> sales
>>
>>
>>> cycle however, they are wowed by the possibilities which certainly
>>>
>>>
>> helps and
>>
>>
>>> stands out from the crowd since there are no material nor licensing
>>>
>>>
>> costs,
>>
>>
>>> just time.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Steve Totaro
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Dean Collins" <Dean at cognation.net>
>>> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
>>> <asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:42 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> My suggestion was a $25 one off license per simultaneous call.
>>>>
>>>> Eg you run a small asterisk server in your office where people may
>>>>
>>>>
>> use
>>
>>
>>>> it from time to time then it's a one off $25 fee.
>>>>
>>>> If you run a website with a community of users who get together to
>>>>
>>>>
>> chat
>>
>>
>>>> with each other and want to restrict it to 10 people at once then
>>>>
>>>>
>> your
>>
>>
>>>> fee would be $250
>>>>
>>>> And lets face it if you cant/wont pay $25 then you aren't really
>>>>
>>>>
>> serious
>>
>>
>>>> at any price.
>>>>
>>>> The question in the founders mind always was....how many people
>>>>
>>>>
>> actually
>>
>>
>>>> want to buy this product (at any fee) and how many would use it if
>>>>
>>>>
>> it
>>
>>
>>>> was free but really don't want it bad enough to fire up a paypal
>>>>
>>>>
>> account
>>
>>
>>>> or similar.
>>>>
>>>> At the end of the day Tim spent a long time developing the
>>>>
>>>>
>> application
>>
>>
>>>> (and at only 125k in size it's a work of art), office space, rent,
>>>>
>>>>
>> food
>>
>>
>>>> and telephony, sales people/tech support salaries all cost money.
>>>>
>>>>
>> Mexuar
>>
>>
>>>> needs a return on their investment to cover their costs and a profit
>>>> return.
>>>>
>>>> At the end of the day they chose to go with the high end unlimited
>>>>
>>>>
>> use
>>
>>
>>>> for a single reasonable fee of $US2,000 which means any service
>>>>
>>>>
>> provider
>>
>>
>>>> or large company could implement it quite easily and they offered an
>>>>
>>>>
>> ASP
>>
>>
>>>> service for one off licenses with a monthly fee.
>>>>
>>>> What confuses me about this whole space is JIAX.
>>>>
>>>> If there is an existing free application available, albeit free and
>>>>
>>>>
>> not
>>
>>
>>>> perfect, why haven't more people chosen to spend time fixing this or
>>>> offered bounties for it's improvement.
>>>>
>>>> At the end of the day maybe there just aren't as many people looking
>>>>
>>>>
>> to
>>
>>
>>>> use this functionality as 'perceived' and my proposal is wrong. As
>>>>
>>>>
>> it's
>>
>>
>>>> not my investment I think the founders of Mexuar made the right
>>>>
>>>>
>> choice.
>>
>>
>>>> Will be interesting to see if a lot of people chime in on this
>>>> discussion and I'm shown to be right and there is a market for $25
>>>>
>>>>
>> per
>>
>>
>>>> simultaneous call licenses.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Dean Collins
>>>> Cognation Pty Ltd
>>>> dean at cognation.net
>>>> +1-212-203-4357
>>>> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-biz-
>>>>> bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Rubenstein
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2007 7:33 AM
>>>>> To: Mike Clark
>>>>> Cc: Asterisk -Biz
>>>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
>>>>>
>>>>> $5 per end user is way too much for little Web apps like
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> chatrooms or
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> sales/cust-svc chats, or anything where a given random user from
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> the
>>
>>
>>>>> public on the Web isn't going to return at least $10 a year in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> profit
>>
>>
>>>>> from which that license can be paid. Even $5 per running instance
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> is
>>
>>
>>>> too
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> high. The problem isn't so much the price, but just a per-instance
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> fee
>>
>>
>>>>> as a limit to scale.
>>>>>
>>>>> The solution is a license fee on a middleware server with
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> traffic
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> capacities, and a free client. But if the middleware does't offer
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> value
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> of its own (beyond being the "key" for the clients to work), then
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> it's
>>
>>
>>>>> going to be a nuisance. In any case, the client should be free.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> Which
>>
>>
>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> one impediment to widespread development, which is a reason it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> isn't
>>
>>
>>>>> here yet. But since there is some development, with those bizmodel
>>>>> constraints, I'd think there'd be several options already for
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> "webpage
>>
>>
>>>>> voice" integrated with the PSTN. These same business constraints
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> don't
>>
>>
>>>>> seem to have eliminated any number of free clients floating around
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> and
>>
>>
>>>>> seeing lots of use. Which are then harnessed to support business
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> models
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> relating to the business, not to the software used by the business.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 07:20 -0500, Mike Clark wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> They key is not creating a barrier to entry. It would be ideal if
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> I
>>
>>
>>>>>> could license a "Mexuar-like" client in small lots of 5 or 10 at
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> a
>>
>>
>>>> price
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> of around $10 per license. You might even give away a "free"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> developer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> pack of 2 licenses so folks can easily get started. This all
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> enables
>>
>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> little gut to get in the game, and then maybe hit a homerun
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> resulting in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> thousands of licenses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dean Collins wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But Mike the question remains how much is it worth to you to be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> able to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> do this?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dean Collins
>>>>>>> Cognation Pty Ltd
>>>>>>> dean at cognation.net
>>>>>>> +1-212-203-4357
>>>>>>> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>> [mailto:asterisk-biz-
>>
>>
>>>>>>>> bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Mike Clark
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, 17 December 2007 5:22 PM
>>>>>>>> To: email at mattruby.com; Commercial and Business-Oriented
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>> Asterisk
>>
>>
>>>>>>> Discussion
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Matthew Rubenstein wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dean, how would you describe Mexuar, with its embeddable
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> but
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> proprietary IAX applet, in that context?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...snipped a bunch..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not Dean, but I'll comment here.I evaluated Mexuar and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>> really
>>
>>
>>>>>>> liked
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it, but they had no good mechanism for a small developer to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>> get
>>
>>
>>>>>>> started.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They wanted a substantial up front licensing fee to get going.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> OTOH,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you turned out to be successful, it was a good deal because it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> was a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> time fee.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ribbit has a totally different model as they are a full blown
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> ITSP and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> have provided a Flex/Actionscript API to their Flash phone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> component
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> no charge to developers. I have an app ready to roll as soon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>> as
>>
>>
>>>> they
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> completely live.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would love to see a similar type API to a Flash SIP or IAX2
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> component
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> where I could access my own Asterisk or Freeswitch server.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike Clark
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> (C) Matthew Rubenstein
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
>
> asterisk-biz mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>
>
More information about the asterisk-biz
mailing list