[asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
Steve Totaro
stotaro at mail.schoffstall.com
Tue Dec 18 10:48:52 CST 2007
Dean,
I wish it were mine to give back.
I worked with/for a group. It is not my IP since it was not my code and
even the stuff I did myself (not very useful anyways) was on contracted
time. The contract was very specific about who owned the IP to any code
developed. Technically, by contract I should not have any code in my
possession at this point.
The point is, the JIAX code could and has been easily modified to create
a free Java web based IAX softphone if someone just did it. To me, that
indicates lack of demand (in the opensource area anyways).
Thanks,
Steve Totaro
Dean Collins wrote:
> Steve,
> I'm confused about why you decided not to use your development or offer
> it back to the community?
>
> If you've got it and don't want to use it I'm sure there are some people
> on the list that would like to see what you've done and implement it on
> a no-support basis.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Dean Collins
> Cognation Pty Ltd
> dean at cognation.net
> +1-212-203-4357
> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-biz-
>> bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro
>> Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2007 10:49 AM
>> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
>>
>> Dean,
>>
>> I think you may be right on the money with JIAX and the real demand
>>
> for a
>
>> web based phone. I worked with a group that "fixed" the freely
>>
> available
>
>> JIAX code (by Mikael Magnusson http://www.hem.za.org/jiaxclient ) but
>>
> had
>
>> no interest in giving the code back to wild, nor selling it. It did
>>
> not
>
>> take a few good Java guys very long to get it working the same as
>>
> Mexuar's.
>
>> I was able to compile a workign jar from source myself with a few
>>
> changes
>
>> and I am not a Dev guy, let alone a Java guy at all (but it took me
>>
> the
>
>> better part of week).
>>
>> I think that the demand is not really there (yet). Most real world
>>
> people
>
>> would rather pick up a real phone and dial a toll free number than don
>>
> a
>
>> headset with mic and make a call via browser. I think it has some wow
>>
> power
>
>> to "our kind", but I think the average Joe would not use this until
>> convergence is more complete to avoid putting on headphones (like a
>> bluetooth link from PC to a hardphone or cell).
>>
>> It is similar to many companies that I consult for. The people in the
>> company want to know the bare essentials to use the phones. Sometimes
>>
> the
>
>> higher ups are interested in advanced functionality but more often
>>
> than not,
>
>> they just want something to replace (insert phone system here) in
>> functionality with a few remote phones or remote offices. During the
>>
> sales
>
>> cycle however, they are wowed by the possibilities which certainly
>>
> helps and
>
>> stands out from the crowd since there are no material nor licensing
>>
> costs,
>
>> just time.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Steve Totaro
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dean Collins" <Dean at cognation.net>
>> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
>> <asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:42 AM
>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
>>
>>
>>
>>> My suggestion was a $25 one off license per simultaneous call.
>>>
>>> Eg you run a small asterisk server in your office where people may
>>>
> use
>
>>> it from time to time then it's a one off $25 fee.
>>>
>>> If you run a website with a community of users who get together to
>>>
> chat
>
>>> with each other and want to restrict it to 10 people at once then
>>>
> your
>
>>> fee would be $250
>>>
>>> And lets face it if you cant/wont pay $25 then you aren't really
>>>
> serious
>
>>> at any price.
>>>
>>> The question in the founders mind always was....how many people
>>>
> actually
>
>>> want to buy this product (at any fee) and how many would use it if
>>>
> it
>
>>> was free but really don't want it bad enough to fire up a paypal
>>>
> account
>
>>> or similar.
>>>
>>> At the end of the day Tim spent a long time developing the
>>>
> application
>
>>> (and at only 125k in size it's a work of art), office space, rent,
>>>
> food
>
>>> and telephony, sales people/tech support salaries all cost money.
>>>
> Mexuar
>
>>> needs a return on their investment to cover their costs and a profit
>>> return.
>>>
>>> At the end of the day they chose to go with the high end unlimited
>>>
> use
>
>>> for a single reasonable fee of $US2,000 which means any service
>>>
> provider
>
>>> or large company could implement it quite easily and they offered an
>>>
> ASP
>
>>> service for one off licenses with a monthly fee.
>>>
>>> What confuses me about this whole space is JIAX.
>>>
>>> If there is an existing free application available, albeit free and
>>>
> not
>
>>> perfect, why haven't more people chosen to spend time fixing this or
>>> offered bounties for it's improvement.
>>>
>>> At the end of the day maybe there just aren't as many people looking
>>>
> to
>
>>> use this functionality as 'perceived' and my proposal is wrong. As
>>>
> it's
>
>>> not my investment I think the founders of Mexuar made the right
>>>
> choice.
>
>>> Will be interesting to see if a lot of people chime in on this
>>> discussion and I'm shown to be right and there is a market for $25
>>>
> per
>
>>> simultaneous call licenses.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Dean Collins
>>> Cognation Pty Ltd
>>> dean at cognation.net
>>> +1-212-203-4357
>>> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-biz-
>>>> bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Rubenstein
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2007 7:33 AM
>>>> To: Mike Clark
>>>> Cc: Asterisk -Biz
>>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
>>>>
>>>> $5 per end user is way too much for little Web apps like
>>>>
>>> chatrooms or
>>>
>>>> sales/cust-svc chats, or anything where a given random user from
>>>>
> the
>
>>>> public on the Web isn't going to return at least $10 a year in
>>>>
> profit
>
>>>> from which that license can be paid. Even $5 per running instance
>>>>
> is
>
>>> too
>>>
>>>> high. The problem isn't so much the price, but just a per-instance
>>>>
> fee
>
>>>> as a limit to scale.
>>>>
>>>> The solution is a license fee on a middleware server with
>>>>
>>> traffic
>>>
>>>> capacities, and a free client. But if the middleware does't offer
>>>>
>>> value
>>>
>>>> of its own (beyond being the "key" for the clients to work), then
>>>>
> it's
>
>>>> going to be a nuisance. In any case, the client should be free.
>>>>
> Which
>
>>> is
>>>
>>>> one impediment to widespread development, which is a reason it
>>>>
> isn't
>
>>>> here yet. But since there is some development, with those bizmodel
>>>> constraints, I'd think there'd be several options already for
>>>>
> "webpage
>
>>>> voice" integrated with the PSTN. These same business constraints
>>>>
> don't
>
>>>> seem to have eliminated any number of free clients floating around
>>>>
> and
>
>>>> seeing lots of use. Which are then harnessed to support business
>>>>
>>> models
>>>
>>>> relating to the business, not to the software used by the business.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 07:20 -0500, Mike Clark wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> They key is not creating a barrier to entry. It would be ideal if
>>>>>
> I
>
>>>>> could license a "Mexuar-like" client in small lots of 5 or 10 at
>>>>>
> a
>
>>> price
>>>
>>>>> of around $10 per license. You might even give away a "free"
>>>>>
>>> developer
>>>
>>>>> pack of 2 licenses so folks can easily get started. This all
>>>>>
> enables
>
>>> the
>>>
>>>>> little gut to get in the game, and then maybe hit a homerun
>>>>>
>>> resulting in
>>>
>>>>> thousands of licenses.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dean Collins wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But Mike the question remains how much is it worth to you to be
>>>>>>
>>> able to
>>>
>>>>>> do this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dean Collins
>>>>>> Cognation Pty Ltd
>>>>>> dean at cognation.net
>>>>>> +1-212-203-4357
>>>>>> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com
>>>>>>>
> [mailto:asterisk-biz-
>
>>>>>>> bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Mike Clark
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, 17 December 2007 5:22 PM
>>>>>>> To: email at mattruby.com; Commercial and Business-Oriented
>>>>>>>
> Asterisk
>
>>>>>> Discussion
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Matthew Rubenstein wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dean, how would you describe Mexuar, with its embeddable
>>>>>>>>
>>> but
>>>
>>>>>>>> proprietary IAX applet, in that context?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...snipped a bunch..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not Dean, but I'll comment here.I evaluated Mexuar and
>>>>>>>
> really
>
>>>>>> liked
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it, but they had no good mechanism for a small developer to
>>>>>>>
> get
>
>>>>>> started.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They wanted a substantial up front licensing fee to get going.
>>>>>>>
>>> OTOH,
>>>
>>>>>> if
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you turned out to be successful, it was a good deal because it
>>>>>>>
>>> was a
>>>
>>>>>> one
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> time fee.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ribbit has a totally different model as they are a full blown
>>>>>>>
>>> ITSP and
>>>
>>>>>>> have provided a Flex/Actionscript API to their Flash phone
>>>>>>>
>>> component
>>>
>>>>>> at
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> no charge to developers. I have an app ready to roll as soon
>>>>>>>
> as
>
>>> they
>>>
>>>>>> are
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> completely live.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would love to see a similar type API to a Flash SIP or IAX2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> component
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> where I could access my own Asterisk or Freeswitch server.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike Clark
>>>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> (C) Matthew Rubenstein
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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