[asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?

Tue Dec 18 10:26:48 CST 2007

Steve,
I'm confused about why you decided not to use your development or offer
it back to the community?

If you've got it and don't want to use it I'm sure there are some people
on the list that would like to see what you've done and implement it on
a no-support basis.

Regards,

Dean Collins
Cognation Pty Ltd
dean at cognation.net 
+1-212-203-4357
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).

> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-biz-
> bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro
> Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2007 10:49 AM
> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
> 
> Dean,
> 
> I think you may be right on the money with JIAX and the real demand
for a
> web based phone.  I worked with a group that "fixed" the freely
available
> JIAX code (by  Mikael Magnusson http://www.hem.za.org/jiaxclient ) but
had
> no interest in giving the code back to wild, nor selling it.  It did
not
> take a few good Java guys very long to get it working the same as
Mexuar's.
> I was able to compile a workign jar from source myself with a few
changes
> and I am not a Dev guy, let alone a Java guy at all (but it took me
the
> better part of week).
> 
> I think that the demand is not really there (yet).  Most real world
people
> would rather pick up a real phone and dial a toll free number than don
a
> headset with mic and make a call via browser.  I think it has some wow
power
> to "our kind", but I think the average Joe would not use this until
> convergence is more complete to avoid putting on headphones (like a
> bluetooth link from PC to a hardphone or cell).
> 
> It is similar to many companies that I consult for.  The people in the
> company want to know the bare essentials to use the phones.  Sometimes
the
> higher ups are interested in advanced functionality but more often
than not,
> they just want something to replace (insert phone system here) in
> functionality with a few remote phones or remote offices.  During the
sales
> cycle however, they are wowed by the possibilities which certainly
helps and
> stands out from the crowd since there are no material nor licensing
costs,
> just time.
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve Totaro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dean Collins" <Dean at cognation.net>
> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
> <asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
> 
> 
> > My suggestion was a $25 one off license per simultaneous call.
> >
> > Eg you run a small asterisk server in your office where people may
use
> > it from time to time then it's a one off $25 fee.
> >
> > If you run a website with a community of users who get together to
chat
> > with each other and want to restrict it to 10 people at once then
your
> > fee would be $250
> >
> > And lets face it if you cant/wont pay $25 then you aren't really
serious
> > at any price.
> >
> > The question in the founders mind always was....how many people
actually
> > want to buy this product (at any fee) and how many would use it if
it
> > was free but really don't want it bad enough to fire up a paypal
account
> > or similar.
> >
> > At the end of the day Tim spent a long time developing the
application
> > (and at only 125k in size it's a work of art), office space, rent,
food
> > and telephony, sales people/tech support salaries all cost money.
Mexuar
> > needs a return on their investment to cover their costs and a profit
> > return.
> >
> > At the end of the day they chose to go with the high end unlimited
use
> > for a single reasonable fee of $US2,000 which means any service
provider
> > or large company could implement it quite easily and they offered an
ASP
> > service for one off licenses with a monthly fee.
> >
> > What confuses me about this whole space is JIAX.
> >
> > If there is an existing free application available, albeit free and
not
> > perfect, why haven't more people chosen to spend time fixing this or
> > offered bounties for it's improvement.
> >
> > At the end of the day maybe there just aren't as many people looking
to
> > use this functionality as 'perceived' and my proposal is wrong. As
it's
> > not my investment I think the founders of Mexuar made the right
choice.
> >
> > Will be interesting to see if a lot of people chime in on this
> > discussion and I'm shown to be right and there is a market for $25
per
> > simultaneous call licenses.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Dean Collins
> > Cognation Pty Ltd
> > dean at cognation.net
> > +1-212-203-4357
> > +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-biz-
> >> bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Rubenstein
> >> Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2007 7:33 AM
> >> To: Mike Clark
> >> Cc: Asterisk -Biz
> >> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
> >>
> >> $5 per end user is way too much for little Web apps like
> > chatrooms or
> >> sales/cust-svc chats, or anything where a given random user from
the
> >> public on the Web isn't going to return at least $10 a year in
profit
> >> from which that license can be paid. Even $5 per running instance
is
> > too
> >> high. The problem isn't so much the price, but just a per-instance
fee
> >> as a limit to scale.
> >>
> >> The solution is a license fee on a middleware server with
> > traffic
> >> capacities, and a free client. But if the middleware does't offer
> > value
> >> of its own (beyond being the "key" for the clients to work), then
it's
> >> going to be a nuisance. In any case, the client should be free.
Which
> > is
> >> one impediment to widespread development, which is a reason it
isn't
> >> here yet. But since there is some development, with those bizmodel
> >> constraints, I'd think there'd be several options already for
"webpage
> >> voice" integrated with the PSTN. These same business constraints
don't
> >> seem to have eliminated any number of free clients floating around
and
> >> seeing lots of use. Which are then harnessed to support business
> > models
> >> relating to the business, not to the software used by the business.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 07:20 -0500, Mike Clark wrote:
> >> > They key is not creating a barrier to entry. It would be ideal if
I
> >> > could license a "Mexuar-like" client in small lots of 5 or 10 at
a
> > price
> >> > of around $10 per license. You might even give away a "free"
> > developer
> >> > pack of 2 licenses so folks can easily get started. This all
enables
> > the
> >> > little gut to get in the game, and then maybe hit a homerun
> > resulting in
> >> > thousands of licenses.
> >> >
> >> > Dean Collins wrote:
> >> > > But Mike the question remains how much is it worth to you to be
> > able to
> >> > > do this?
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Regards,
> >> > >
> >> > > Dean Collins
> >> > > Cognation Pty Ltd
> >> > > dean at cognation.net
> >> > > +1-212-203-4357
> >> > > +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >> -----Original Message-----
> >> > >> From: asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-biz-
> >> > >> bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Mike Clark
> >> > >> Sent: Monday, 17 December 2007 5:22 PM
> >> > >> To: email at mattruby.com; Commercial and Business-Oriented
Asterisk
> >> > >>
> >> > > Discussion
> >> > >
> >> > >> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Matthew Rubenstein wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> Dean, how would you describe Mexuar, with its embeddable
> > but
> >> > >>> proprietary IAX applet, in that context?
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >> ...snipped a bunch..
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I'm not Dean, but I'll comment here.I evaluated Mexuar and
really
> >> > >>
> >> > > liked
> >> > >
> >> > >> it, but they had no good mechanism for a small developer to
get
> >> > >>
> >> > > started.
> >> > >
> >> > >> They wanted a substantial up front licensing fee to get going.
> > OTOH,
> >> > >>
> >> > > if
> >> > >
> >> > >> you turned out to be successful, it was a good deal because it
> > was a
> >> > >>
> >> > > one
> >> > >
> >> > >> time fee.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Ribbit has a totally different model as they are a full blown
> > ITSP and
> >> > >> have provided a Flex/Actionscript API to their Flash phone
> > component
> >> > >>
> >> > > at
> >> > >
> >> > >> no charge to developers. I have an app ready to roll as soon
as
> > they
> >> > >>
> >> > > are
> >> > >
> >> > >> completely live.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I would love to see a similar type API to a Flash SIP or IAX2
> >> > >>
> >> > > component
> >> > >
> >> > >> where I could access my own Asterisk or Freeswitch server.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Mike Clark
> >> --
> >>
> >> (C) Matthew Rubenstein
> >>
> >>
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