[asterisk-users] No Bull Service Providers

Jeff LaCoursiere jeff at sunfone.com
Thu Sep 29 10:48:59 CDT 2011 


On Thu, 29 Sep 2011, Nick Khamis wrote:

> Hello Jeff,
>
> There will always be fierce competition, we are starting of with
> prepaid for an obvious source of quick revenue, we will also be
> rolling out a few more products in the next year.. It seems like they
> LIE about their LD rates. A company in Australia was
> charged with this not too long ago. Stolen minutes? Not that I would
> be interested in stealing! I just want to be educated
> in such an act.

You will often see discussion on this list about asterisk servers being 
"compromised" and the result being very expensive calls placed until the 
compromise is noticed and shutdown.  Those calls are placed by nefarious 
wholesalers that take advantage of the "free" routes they manage to find 
as long as possible.  Hard to compete against free!

Other games the calling card companies play - they will release a card 
with unbelievable rates so that it quickly gains market share, then slowly 
back off the minutes offered by the card (without changing the rate sheets 
of course) until it is noticed by the consumers, who stop buying it.  Then 
that card is discontinued and another is produced in the same manner.  You 
will notice on the calling card shelves there are only a handful of 
companies producing lots of different cards.

There are many more tricks they use to dupe the consumers and stifle 
competition.  Hidden or non-disclosed connection rates, "maintenance fees" 
charged every few days to burn off credit on the cards, time restrictions 
on the lower rates, etc.  We actually produced a card once we called 
"TRUTH" (which was honest about rates, had no hidden fees, etc) and it 
sold ok for a while, but when the card next to it on the shelf claims 
twice the minutes for the same $$$, eventually they win.

In the end this business doesn't make money unless you are selling 
millions of minutes per month, and even then the margins are slim and 
you have to play the same games to compete.  What we thought would be a 
fairly easy business to run became a maintenance nightmare, and a single 
instance of fraud could wipe out months worth of profits.

A2billing didn't exist when we started, so we rolled our own.  Seems 
pretty popular now - maybe it would work well for you.

Good luck,

j

>
> Of course we don't have to use the same in/outbound providers.  I
> should have been clearer about that. You mentioned Least Cost
> Route/Rate (LCR), any reason why you did not use what is already out
> there? Provided by a2billing etc...? We can also implement something
> using AGI if needed....
>
> Nick.
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Jeff LaCoursiere <jeff at sunfone.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 29 Sep 2011, Nick Khamis wrote:
>>
>>> I should have mentioned we are interested in international long
>>> distance. That will
>>> be a big part of our business.
>>>
>>
>> It sounds like you are intending to start a calling card company.  Good luck
>> - the competition is fierce, and you will be competing against companies
>> that outright lie about the capacity of their cards, and use stolen minutes
>> to fulfill them as often as they can.
>>
>> If you intend to do wholesale by reselling, you don't need to use the same
>> company for inbound and outbound.  In fact for outbound you will probably
>> have many upstream providers, as your goal will be to find the cheapest
>> reliable route in every case.  You will need to code something for route
>> selection (I did this in C/AGI).
>>
>> For inbound I use IP Comms, which has worked well.  Unlimited inbound per
>> DID, but NOT unlimited channels.  For outbound I had arrangements with STi,
>> Voipjet, and many others for smaller route sets.  I also participated in the
>> wholesale market at Arbinet, who just got bought out by someone...
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> j
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Danny Nicholas <danny at debsinc.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> They aren't everywhere, but we have had good experience with Voicepulse
>>>> and
>>>> their rate is typically less than $0.015 per minute.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com
>>>> [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Nick Khamis
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:09 AM
>>>> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
>>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] No Bull Service Providers
>>>>
>>>> Very true... But there should be an equilibrium, the "relaiable service,
>>>> and
>>>> aggressive pricing" comes to meet?
>>>> Guys please share your experiences.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:58 AM, C. Savinovich
>>>> <c.savinovich at itntelecom.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> In my professional opinion, the phrases "I don't want no Bull service"
>>>>> and "I want the cheapest service" are total contradictions.  Down the
>>>>> road something is not going to give.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> C. Savinovich
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On September 29, 2011 at 10:47 AM Danny Nicholas <danny at debsinc.com>
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This belongs on the "commercial" list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com
>>>>>> [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Nick
>>>>>> Khamis
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 9:44 AM
>>>>>> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
>>>>>> Subject: [asterisk-users] No Bull Service Providers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are looking for DID and SIP Termination service providers. Since
>>>>>> there are so many these days, can you guy mention the BIG players
>>>>>> that are supplying the rest of the little guy? We are looking for the
>>>>>> cheapest, and scaleable infrastructure (i.e. unlimited channels for
>>>>>> DID, and trunks for termintation). To summarize we are looking for
>>>>>> the major players in the DID and SIP Trunk market, no/limited
>>>>>> headache. This is for wholesaler service.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in Advance,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> Christian Savinovich
>>>>> Telecom & Telephony Consulting
>>>>> 646.982.3572
>>>>> c.savinovich at itntelecom.com
>>>>>
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>
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