[asterisk-users] Re: FW: Peter Dicks Chairman ofSportingbet PLC
isarrested at JFK!!
Brandon Galbraith
brandon.galbraith at gmail.com
Fri Sep 8 13:06:54 MST 2006
Steve,
Forgive my ignorance, but why does India institute that policy?
-brandon
On 9/8/06, Steven <asterisk at tescogroup.com> wrote:
>
> Even in India, you can use VOIP for overseas calls coming from your own
> company.
> You just can't sell services that allow people to call a PSTN number and
> then have their call sent over VOIP to another location.
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Steven
>
> http://www.glimasoutheast.org
>
>
>
>
> "Alex Robar" <alex.robar at gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9ffdc7570609081054m7832025dg5c2a9c1c35c14792 at mail.gmail.com...
>
> The biggest problem with your argument is that VoIP is not illegal
> anywhere. Voice over _internet_ is, but voice over the Internet protocol is
> not. Anyone in China is free to setup Asterisk to use within their offices.
> There's nothing illegal about it. It's using VoIP, but it's not transmitting
> it outside of your office. It's the calls that leave your office that
> matter... They're the ones that governments can tax.
>
> ...And if what Mark Spencer is doing isn't illegal, your post it most
> certainly OT... And definitely flame bait. Why troll about the US? There's
> US hating forums in a lot of places, go post your rants there.
>
> Alex
>
> On 9/8/06, Dean Collins <Dean at collins.net.pr> wrote:
> >
> > Yes I am aware he is the second executive to be arrested......the first
> > is still yet to be charged and is still awaiting trial and has fallen
> > off the face of the general media which is why I'm 'motivated' to draw
> > attention and outrage to this second case.
> >
> > Yes you are right it does belong off this list but with so many people
> > on this list doing international business on the internet (including
> > yourself by the looks of your own voip carrier website).
> >
> > So when someone from China places an order on your website for a voip
> > service, you agree that it would be ok for the Chinese government to let
> > the Chinese customer go free but for them to arrest you and any other
> > directors muWare?
> >
> > (also lets not forget that the WTO has already ruled that USA government
> > is in breach with their court case back in March).
> >
> > I'm very curious about your thoughts or will you prefer to stick your
> > head in the sand and pretend that the USA lives in a bubble on the
> > planet earth and would prefer that Walmart not do business
> > internationally or that the Ford motor car you drive not use Australian
> > steel etc etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Dean
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com [mailto: asterisk-users-
> > > bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Jay Milk
> > > Sent: Friday, 8 September 2006 1:22 PM
> > > To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> > > Subject: Re: {Fraud?} RE: [asterisk-users] FW: Peter Dicks Chairman
> > ofSportingbet
> > > PLC isarrested at JFK!!
> > >
> > > Why don't you keep political diatribe to your blog? This is OT, and
> > > quite frankly it displays that you have less than perfect grasp on
> > reality.
> > > Mark Spencer makes a software product that is perfectly legal to use
> > > anywhere in the world, even in India (as long as it stays within a
> > > building and used as a PBX only). It's the user's responsibility to
> > > understand and follow local law in utilizing this software. By the
> > same
> > > token, a vehicle is legal to use for most, but it becomes a weapon
> > when
> > > you intentionally or neglectfully run someone over.
> > > Peter Dicks was operating a business that was offering certain
> > services
> > > that are illegal in the place where he offered them. If he was
> > arrested
> > > the moment he entered the US, then this was investigated before, and
> > he
> > > was asked to cease offering these illegal services in the US, but has
> > > refused to do so -- if you followed the news as enthusiastically as
> > you
> > > post OT messages, then you would have realized that Dicks was the
> > > *second* executive that was arrested. This should have come as no
> > > surprise to Dicks or his lawyers.
> > > So, now we're seeing the guy not as a clueless tourist, but a
> > > law-defying visitor. He's done something that is illegal, has refused
> > to
> > > stop, and was dumb enough to step into the jurisdiction of his crime.
> > Is
> > > there a problem with that? Because if there is, you need to start
> > > defending Columbian drug-lords and terrorists, too.
> > > This is fulfills my quote of OT posts for the day. Just had to say
> > > something in the face of such obvious stupidity.
> > >
> > > Dean Collins wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Exactly so why aren't they trying to arrest the 50 million people in
> >
> > > > the USA who have gambled online?
> > > >
> > > > Mark (as far as I know) isn't actively checking with asterisk users
> > > > for what country they are in so therefore in the reciprocal eyes of
> > > > the indian government he is similarly breaking the law.
> > > >
> > > > Basically what the USA government is charging Peter Dicks with is
> > not
> > > > being a global policeman to enforce a USA law (which the WTO has
> > > > already ruled is illegal back in March
> > > > http://www.internetnews.com/ec-news/article.php/3434111 ).
> > > >
> > > > The USA government can't enforce it's principals on the rest of the
> > > > world otherwise they are no better than the terrorists who are
> > trying
> > > > to impose Sharia Law on the world.
> > > >
> > > > I'm trying terribly not to take this discussion any further Off
> > Topic
> > > > but realistically we live in a global society and the USA is
> > > > overstepping it's limits on international trade here. I appreciate
> > > > this isn't the best forum for it but this has much wider
> > ramifications
> > > > for those of us who do business internationally in and with the USA.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Dean
> > > >
> > > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > >
> > > > *From:* asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com
> > > > [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com ] *On Behalf Of
> > *Alex
> > Robar
> > > > *Sent:* Friday, 8 September 2006 12:45 PM
> > > > *To:* Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> > > > *Subject:* Re: [asterisk-users] FW: Peter Dicks Chairman of
> > > > Sportingbet PLC isarrested at JFK!!
> > > >
> > > > The guy was arrested because he was conciously allowing US citizens
> > to
> > > > gamble online, something illegal in the US at this point. He ran a
> > > > business who's sole profit source came from this illegal activity.
> > > > Spencer is an entirely different situation. He's not running a
> > > > business in which he provides VoIP to places where it is illegal.
> > He's
> > > > running a business the develops software that enables VoIP...
> > There's
> > > > a big difference there. If someone takes the software and uses it in
> > a
> > > > place where VoIP is illegal, that does not make Spencer responsible.
> >
> > > > Think of it along the lines of BitTorrent software. The software
> > isn't
> > > > illegal - it has valid uses - but it _could_ be used for something
> > > > illegal. All that means is that the user of the software has
> > commited
> > > > a crime; Not the developer.
> > > >
> > > > Alex
> > > >
> > > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > *From:* Dean Collins
> > > > *Sent:* Friday, 8 September 2006 10:22 AM
> > > > *To:* 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
> > > > *Subject:* FW: Peter Dicks Chairman of Sportingbet PLC is
> > arrested
> > > > at JFK!!
> > > >
> > > > I'm sending this to the asterisk list - consciously knowing it
> > > > will piss some people off but this is the *most important
> > business
> > > > issue of the day* for anyone doing business in or with a US
> > company.
> > > >
> > > > Oh and before anyone on this list thinks of calling this OT -
> > how
> > > > about Mark Spencer being arrested while travelling in a country
> > > > like India or the Middle East that has banned VOIP services
> > (which
> > > > is still illegal because they cant tax it of course).
> > > >
> > > > I don't know what you are going to be able to do with this
> > > > information but this has to be discussed as it affect the future
> >
> > > > of international commerce when dealing with the USA.
> > > >
> > > > Best intentions,
> > > >
> > > > Dean
> > > >
> > > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > >
> > > > *From:* Dean Collins
> > > > *Sent:* Friday, 8 September 2006 10:15 AM
> > > > *Subject:* Peter Dicks Chairman of Sportingbet PLC is arrested
> > at
> > > > JFK!!
> > > >
> > > > This is bullshit.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know how to effectively express my outrage over this
> > > > action by the US government.
> > > >
> > > > Check out these links for background info;
> > > >
> > > > www.nytimes.com
> > > >
> > >
> > <http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/08/technology/08gamble.html?_r=1&oref=sl
> >
> > ogin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > money.cnn.com
> > > >
> > >
> > <http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/08/news/international/bc.leisure.sportingb
> >
> > et.reut/?p
> > > ostversion=2006090808>
> > > >
> > > > today.reuters.co.uk
> > > >
> > >
> > <http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=internetNews&stor
> > yID=200
> > > 6-09-07T160138Z_01_N07242747_RTRIDST_0_OUKIN-UK-LEISURE-
> > > SPORTINGBET-DICKS.XML>
> > > >
> > > > www.businessweek.com
> > > >
> > >
> > <http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8K02SM85.htm?sub=apn_euro
> > > _up&chan=gb>
> > > >
> > > > So basically we have a UK citizen, operating a UK business
> > > > (sportingbetplc.com board)
> > > >
> > >
> > <http://www.sportingbetplc.com/pages/15/Our+Board.stm?PHPSESSID=15ba3131
> > > b6035fc855dabdde5c19b246>
> > > > who the moment he steps foot into the USA is arrested, not for
> > > > crimes he committed but for crimes committted by US citizens.
> > > >
> > > > Oh and arrested under ambiguous Louisiana law, that defines all
> > > > interstate gaming as illegal.
> > > >
> > > > I cant wait for the chairman of the NY Times to be arrested on a
> >
> > > > visit to China because chinese citizens were reading copies of
> > the
> > > > NY Times on the internet.
> > > >
> > > > Oh and as for visiting 'unfriendly' countries, how about if
> > Castro
> > > > started shooting american tourists he found in Cuba for 'crimes
> > of
> > > > treason' in carrying US dollars in their wallets?
> > > >
> > > > This is insane America. When are you going to wake up and begin
> > to
> > > > be a good 'world citizen'?
> > > >
> > > > You cant just arrest people for 'crimes against the state' that
> > > > dont even occur in your country........isn't that what
> > terrorists
> > > > do? Impose their will against the world at large.
> > > >
> > > > I keep hoping I will wake up and the insanity will end? it's
> > like
> > > > a bad dream.
> > > > It's getting hard to tell who is the bad guys anymore.
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://deancollinsblog.blogspot.com/2006/09/peter-dicks-chairman-of-
> > > sportingbet.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
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>
>
> --
> Alex Robar
> alex.robar at gmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
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--
Brandon Galbraith
Email: brandon.galbraith at gmail.com
AIM: brandong00
Voice: 630.400.6992
"A true pirate starts drinking before the sun hits the yard-arm. Yarrrr.
--thelost"
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