[Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards

[Benjamin on Asterisk Mailing Lists]

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:19:31 +1000, Adam Goryachev
<mailinglists at websitemanagers.com.au> wrote:
> 
> Well, IMHO, I would expect it perfectly reasonable for one of three
> responses from the 'user' community (in order of likelihood):
> 
> 1) A resounding non-response
> 2) A response of "Well, get a X101P or TDMx0P and try it
> 3) Some advice on how to resolve the problem.

I would like to promote the following code of conduct:

1) If you think somebody should be using the X100P instead of a
generic modem ...

*promote* the X100P, tell the user who asked for help about the
benefits of using an X100P, such as getting support included and why
he might find that support worthwhile paying for.

*kindly* remind him of the fact that Digium is supporting the Asterisk
project and that the user might want to consider part of the purchase
price as a donation towards the project if he thinks he doesn't need
the support.

*do not* lecture him, do not show any hostility, do not make any
statements like "we won't help you if you don't buy XYZ"

2) If you think you can help to solve a problem with a generic modem ...

*consider* to help in the same way as if it was an X100P or not help at all

then, when you reach a point that all your help didn't lead anywhere,
you may *promote* the X100P solution again by reminding the user tha
this is exactly the reason why they would want the support that comes
with the X100P.

if you do manage to solve his problem, *kindly* remind him that this
is a community that only exists because of contributors and that it
would be nice to see the user contributing something back in the
future.

3) If you don't want to help because it is a problem with a generic modem ...

then don't help and keep quiet.


> Most people don't use non digium hardware, so they have no experience
> with the intricacies that might go wrong for you, whether it is a
> hardware problem, driver incompatibility, or whatever, we don't know the
> hardware, we don't trust the reliability of the solution, etc... This is
> why you would most likely get one of the first two responses.

This assumes that the X100P is significantly different from the
generic modem in question, which may not be the case. A positive
approach would be to say "let's see how we can make this work with the
experience of using an X100P". If the outcome then is indeed that the
generic modem is not working due to differences in the hardware, then
you have just gained a good argument in favour of purchasing the
X100P.

> Finally, when you are advising a NEW user, to add additional
> complications/limitations as the above, you are asking for trouble.

Not necessarily. A newbie is the best target to tell why they might
want to consider paying a little extra for the support that comes with
the X100P and if you do it right, you will achieve both

- an experience of being welcome to the Asterisk community and that we
are friendly and helpful
- an understanding that only the X100P carries a guarantee that it
will actually work


> The user buys a generic modem
> a) can't get asterisk to work after some days/weeks, and gives up, tells
> everyone that asterisk is crap, immature, and doesn't work

I venture to say that he will only do that if he found the community
to be unhelpful and hostile.

As long as we made an effort to help him, even if the outcome was that
it didn't wor, he will be more inclined to tell others that

- those Asterisk folks are a great lot, friendly and helpful
- those cheap modems don't work but according to the friendly lot on
the Asterisk mailing list, there is a company that is selling them
rebranded and at a premium with support and they will make sure it
does work; that it would seem worth while considering paying for that
support.

> b) gets asterisk to work, but has major stability problems, or even just
> minor annoying hangups/echo/whatever and so they drop it and tell people
> that it's crap

Here again, as long as the community will be friendly and helpful,
they are more likely to learn that others have no such problems and
that the reason is most likely to be found in unsuitable hardware, not
Asterisk itself.

> c) gets asterisk to work, and everything runs really smoothly. They tell
> everyone asterisk is great, and there is no need to buy the $100 card

If they get it to work, they will most likely join us here and become
part of the community. As such they will learn about the issue and
they are likely to pass on both the pros and cons, just like we do.


> So, you are limiting the number of people who can assist you to those
> who have used FreeBSD,

With the same logic Windoze lusers promote Windoze ... "So you are
limiting the number of people who can assist you to those other 5%?"

Remember this: Without BSD there would be no Zaptel because Jim Dixon
started Zaptel on BSD. So, show a little more gratitude please.

Then again, you are assuming that the differences are so significant
that an experienced Linux Asterisk user could not possibly assist an
experienced BSD Asterisk user. This is simply not the case, only in
very specific cases.

I remember when I was first trying to build an Asterisk server with
Zaptel cards and Zaptel support on a Mac running Yellow Dog Linux 3.0.
The Zaptel drivers wouldn't build out of the box on a stock YDL3
installation and I asked for help on the IRC channel.

Somebody who was fairly helpful and whose assistance got me a leap
further in understanding the problem all of a sudden refused to help
me when he realised that this was not Intel.

Even when I told him that YDL is nothing other than Red Hat for PPC
and that the sponsors of the YDL distro had retained Digium to make
Asterisk and Zaptel work on YDL on PPC, he simply refused to help any
further, only because it wasn't Intel.

We later found out that the problem at hand was the same problem some
Red Hat versions on Intel had with compiling Zaptel. It was related to
a mismatch between the kernel sources and the installed kernel. The
problem was there not because it was a different hardware
architecture, but because it was so close to the Red Hat on Intel that
it also shared the same "bugs".

Since YDL3.01 Zaptel builds out of the box and works just fine.

Of course Linux/x86 and LinuxPPC are much closer to each other than is
Linux/x86 and BSD/x86, but the point here is that we shouldn't limit
outselves by starting off with the assumption that "it won't work
anyway".

> BTW, I though digium was actually putting a reasonable amount of effort
> into getting asterisk + drivers to work on FreeBSD, and have seen a
> number of people claiming success.

AFAIK, this is a community effort.

> > Oh.  That's over at ChiefValue.com.  Encore 56K V.92 Internal PCI Fax Modem,
> > Model ENF656-ESW-INPR - Retail.  $5.90 plus $5.00 shipping.
> 
> I wish you luck, I know nothing about these generic modems, but it
> doesn't look like that even comes close to mentioning the right
> indicators to show that it would work.... but, like I said, I don't
> know.

The main differences of the X100P and other modems using the same chipset are:

- The X100P has a heatsink on the chip
- The X100P has a resistor that alters the ID of the card so if can be
identified as Digium's
- The X100P comes with support for Zaptel and Asterisk, if it doesn't
work with Zaptel and Asterisk, Digium will replace it. If any other
such modem doesn't work with Zaptel and Asterisk the vendor will point
out that it is a modem and that it works with the winmodem driver and
that this is all it is supposed to do.

In other words, there isn't much of a *technical* difference between
those cards.

> By advocating sustainable growth methods... ie, promoting known good
> hardware, which can be easily supported.

To me it is very interesting to see Linux folks taking such a view.
Interesting because very often, it is the very same folks who will
argue the exact opposite when the subject matter is Apple's Macintosh
hardware. They say Apple should sacrifice quality in order to sell
cheaper boxes, while Mac heads say it would hurt the brand. I am not
strictly taking sides here, but I would like to ask for a bit more
tolerance of opposite views for those views might turn out not to be
all that alien after all.

Indeed, being mindful of Asterisk's reputation is important. But the
same goes for the community's reputation, too.

> PS, for those people who feel like sending a message to the list saying
> "Don't use clone x101Ps, or whatever, please don't. The best response
> you can send is a non-reply. Those people who want to support that user,
> will, the rest of us should just keep quite. The same as you would keep
> quite if you know nothing about a sipura and you see a post about some
> wierd problem someone is having with their new sipura.

I totally agree with that.

rgds
benjk

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