[Asterisk-Users] VONAGE or IP Dialtone

[John Todd]

>  > -----Original Message-----
>>  From: Brian Capouch [mailto:brianc at palaver.net]
>>  Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 12:53 AM
>>  To: asterisk-users at lists.digium.com
>>  Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] VONAGE or IP Dialtone
>>
>>
>>  Not necessarily preposterous; I would certainly allow that its
>>  optimality is arguable.
>>
>[several very good point deleted]
>
>Thank you.  Well stated, and you saved me the typing ;)  Find me SIP
>termination with unlimited minutes at a reasonable flat rate to US
>destinations that works natively with * and I'll dump Vonage tomorrow
>(and deal with the rest).
>
>Seriously....please?
>
>Daryl

(Let me preface this: I applaud Vonage for their product; it's 
opening up VoIP in the residential market, and that's great news for 
all of us.  I think they've done a great marketing job, and they will 
undoubtedly be successful in the residential space.)

Daryl -
   You will probably never find a flat-rate provider that offers that 
service without major handcuffs.  My comments about Vonage being 
preposterous are due to not only their restrictions on giving out a 
userid/password that have been paid for; let me elaborate:  Most of 
my customers are business customers.  Even those people who are not 
business customers (friends, family, etc.) are tele-commuters 
sporadically.  Looking at Vonage's terms of service, any type of 
business use is prohibited, which eliminates them as a possible 
candidate for almost 100% of the people who have asked me to 
recommend a VoIP provider.  "Preposterous" is an adequate word to 
describe their limitations and contractual wording.

   I suspect Vonage will eliminate their flat rate pricing sometime in 
the near future, but that is purely speculative.  They're harvesting 
the most abusive customers as their base, and that will come back 
around to bite them.

   Queries to Vonage about giving a business rate (minute-based at 
some low price) have been like talking to a brick wall.  If they 
changed some of their contract wording, allowed me to use their 
service with Asterisk, and opened up a per-minute plan for "business" 
users, I'd be interested.  But that's not their market, and that's 
fine - they know where the money is, so they should not try to 
satisfy markets in which they don't feel there is significant return.

Let me give a brief overview of why I won't recommend Vonage to even 
residential users:

 From Vonage's terms of service:

Firstly, why businesses shouldn't use it:

1.2 Residential Use of Service and Device
The Service and Device are provided to you as a residential user, for 
your personal, residential, non-business and non-professional use. 
This means that you are not using them for any commercial or 
governmental activities, profit-making or non-profit, including but 
not limited to home office, business, sales, tele-commuting, 
tele-marketing, continuous autodialing, fax broadcast, fax blasting 
or any other activity that would be inconsistent with normal 
residential usage patterns.  This also means that you are not to 
resell or transfer the Service or the Device to any other person for 
any purpose, or make any charge for the use of the Service, without 
express written permission from Vonage in advance.  You agree that 
your use of the Service and/or Device, or the use of the Service 
and/or Device provided to you by any other person for any commercial 
or governmental purpose will obligate you to pay Vonage's higher 
rates for commercial service on account of all periods, including 
past periods, in which you use, or used, the Service for commercial 
or governmental purposes.  Vonage reserves the right to immediately 
terminate or modify the Service, if Vonage determines, in its sole 
discretion, that Customer's Service is being used for non-residential 
or commercial use.


Secondly, why people who value their rights shouldn't use it:


"1.3.1 Prohibited Uses:
You agree to use the Service and Device only for lawful purposes. 
This means that you agree not to use them for transmitting or 
receiving any illegal, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, 
defamatory, obscene, sexually explicit, profane, racially or 
ethnically disparaging remarks or otherwise objectionable material of 
any kind, including but not limited to any material that encourages 
conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, give rise to a 
civil liability, or otherwise violate any applicable local, state, 
national or international law. Vonage reserves the right to terminate 
your service immediately and without advance notice if Vonage, in its 
sole discretion, believes that you have violated the above 
restrictions, leaving you responsible for the full month's charges to 
the end of the current term, including without limitation unbilled 
charges, plus a disconnect fee, all of which immediately become due 
and payable.  You are liable for any and all use of the Service 
and/or Device by any person making use of the Service or Device 
provided to you.  If Vonage, in its sole discretion believes that you 
have violated the above restrictions, Vonage may forward the 
objectionable material, as well as your communications with Vonage 
and your personally identifiable information to the appropriate 
authorities for investigation and prosecution."

This wording is overly broad.  The part I find especially disturbing 
is "...may forward the objectionable material..."   Does this mean 
that Vonage is recording my calls without getting legal permission to 
do so?  If someone tells Vonage that they've been offended by my 
repeated swearing on conference calls, does that permit Vonage to 
cancel my service?  Reading this strictly, it is possible for Vonage 
to argue that the purchaser of the service is the only person that 
may use it, and you may not allow others to make calls on the system.


Thirdly, why people who live in countries other than the United 
States shouldn't use it:

"1.3.2 Use of Service and Device by Customers Outside the United States:
While we encourage use of the Service for calls from the United 
States to other countries, Vonage does not presently offer the 
Service to customers located in other countries.  If you remove the 
Device to a country other than the United States and use the Service 
from there, you do so at your own risk, including the risk that such 
activity violates local laws in the country where you do so. 
Vonage reserves the right to terminate your service immediately and 
without advance notice if Vonage, in its sole discretion, believes 
that you have violated the above restrictions or if you use or 
attempt to use the Service from any country other than the United 
States, leaving you responsible for the full month's charges to the 
end of the current term, including without limitation unbilled 
charges, plus a disconnect fee, all of which immediately become due 
and payable.  You are liable for any and all use of the Service 
and/or Device by any person making use of the Service or Device 
provided to you."

So, pretty much, you're shafted if you're not a US resident if Vonage 
decides to shaft you, or your government tells Vonage that all 
traffic originating from IP address range x.y.z.a/16 should be 
refused.


There are even more stupid and useless legal stipulations embedded 
into the agreement, some of which in fact are illegal, some of which 
are contradictory, but I won't even get into those.  Anyone signing 
something like this is either very desperate and is willing to trade 
quite a few of their rights in exchange for cheap long distance, or 
has not actually read the contract.  Granted, you can get your rights 
back (maybe) by not paying the $49.99, but I tend to put my money 
where my mouth is and I don't do business with companies that have 
such broadly worded contracts.

Iconnecthere.com has some less disturbing, but similar clauses, but 
their wording is much tighter and I can almost agree with it, but I'm 
not going to go into other services and their legal flaws.

JT