[Asterisk-Dev] Features requests on bugs.digium.com

[Josh Roberson]

Darren Nickerson wrote:

>
> > There is a feature requests category, however, rarely used.  Fact of 
> the
>
>> matter is, we need a system to actually tackle bugs and bug fixes, 
>> and keep them seperate of feature enhancements/feature requests.
>
>
> Or, you could listen to what people are fairly unanimously saying 
> (thus far) ...
>
> Unless you're going to appoint a product manager whose full-time job 
> it is to organize enhancements and feature requests into a "roadmap" 
> and to marshall efforts to make those things happen, any effort to 
> move these things out of Mantis is just going to grow a separate 
> information repository that will go stale. Open source projects don't 
> generally have anyone who's interested in doing this type of 
> administrative grunt work, ... features and such will just get added 
> as they're added as people find the motivation to add them, however 
> bizarre their reasons ;-). People find motivation in the strangest 
> places, and it's important that asterisk's development model helps 
> absorb that momentum, instead of rebuking it or frustrating it.

I can see your point here, and I agree, most people don't want to do the 
administrative grunt work.  I think what needs to happen, since I've 
seen a lot of viewpoints that seem to match yours, is we need more 
people who's specific job is to handle the feature requests then.  Would 
you like to volunteer? ;)

> You and bkw have actually already proven this point in your desire to 
> move them out of Mantis. If major contributors like yourselves don't 
> want to be bothered by these things, WHO WILL?? It's possible you have 
> several volunteers who have approached you to focus on feature 
> requests and you guys are just being proactive in trying to give them 
> a tool to do their work, but I believe (from a year of lurking) that 
> it's more likely that the bug marshals are sick of seeing things they 
> can't do anything about, but which just sit there in the list, 
> taunting them and making them feel like they're not making headway, 
> ... so they want to move them to a 'special place'.

That's a good point.  I think it is riding on us, wether we notice it or 
not.   I had to stop and think a moment after reading that and recollect 
my thoughts on it, and in fact, that is one of the driving factors as to 
why I feel they should be moved.

> That special place needs to not be a graveyard.

I completely agree with this.  I wouldn't see a repository for feature 
requests/enhancements as a graveyard - meerly another locaiton for 
advancement, and our current system as a place where you bring your 
bugs, and resolutions to bugs.   Perhaps we SHOULD look into a better 
method of bugtracking, perhaps, a new system (not mantis).  Got any 
suggestions?

> You will no doubt recall the discussion at Astricon where the audience 
> was asked what features needed to be added to asterisk ... that was a 
> valuable exercise, no? You could be having that discussion with the 
> whole world every day right there in Mantis if you allowed (and might 
> I even suggest _encouraged_) feature requests. Imagine the wealth of 
> information there for any aspiring developer who might go looking for 
> things to do in Asterisk one rainy day. Even better, people can be 
> having this conversation with one another without you ever needing to 
> get involved! And it's documented for everyone to see and judge.

This was a very good thing.   I also feel that an outside system from 
the bugtracker for feature requests and feature patches would still give 
that place to find things to do on a rainy day.  In fact, I think it 
might even be a more encouraging place, since it would be devoted 
completely to enhancements and feature additions.

>> Again,  don't be quick to make judgements and tell us how we should 
>> be operating, if you're that concerned with it, get involved.
>
>
> You do great work Josh and your contributions to Asterisk are valuable 
> (possibly even vital), and without reproach. But emotional reactions 
> like this still don't have any place here.

That was not an emotional response, regardless of how it was 
interpreted.  It was meant to be a motivational statement - to try to 
get more people directly involved in the project. 

> I'm not telling _anyone_ how to behave, ... I'm contributing my 
> viewpoint (and whether you believe it or not my very relevant 
> experience) to a public discussion in a public forum AT YOUR 
> INVITATION. You may not approve of the way I choose to contribute, ... 
> it's not 'working code' but it _IS_ a contribution nonetheless. Don't 
> assume I just showed up here a few days ago, ... we have disclaimers 
> in with Digium, we've been following developments closely for nearly a 
> year, and our company sent two people to Astricon.

Again, this statement was not meant to be directed at you, my apologies, 
It was meant to be directed to people who would rather complain than try 
to make a difference.  I respect your viewpoint.  I have not 
approval/disapproval to your contribution - In fact I'm trying to 
advance your contributions by getting you/more people involved in the 
day to day operations (if you will) of this project.   Please don't get 
offended.

> I have the upmost repect for you and your viewpoint in this discussion 
> Josh. However, I no longer understand why you and Brian brought this 
> discussion to -devel. If you were looking for a rubber stamp on a 
> controversial (and sometimes disenfranchising) development model, I 
> don't think you're going to receive that. If you're genuinely 
> open-minded and willing to listen to the viewpoints being shared with 
> you, then I think no matter what the outcome, it will have been a 
> useful discussion.

This discussion was actually already here, we just jumped into it.  If 
my reactions to your viewpoints don't prove that I'm open-minded about 
this, I don't know what will. 

> -Darren

Sorry for the misunderstanding - dealing with the project and other 
people's dumps on what you're trying to accomplish really can increase 
the stress level on one side of the fence.  

- Josh