[asterisk-biz] NovoGate SIP/H323 16/32 FXS/FXO Channel Bank (was: Re: asterisk-biz Digest, Vol 45, Issue 33)

Fri Apr 18 13:25:05 CDT 2008

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It's unfortunate, but both individuals have already made their  
business == spam.  We've had this go around with Andy before, and now  
the NovoGate.  One neophyte mistake I can accept, repeated,  
intentional, "misunderstanding" of the rules of the game I can not, I  
don't suffer fools gladly, and I suffer people who think me a fool  
even less.

Following my policy of not rewarding spam, ever, both of these  
companies are on my permanent black list and about to be added to the  
kill file.  Their loss, there are plenty of commercial entities here  
that understand the rules.  They will get the business.

And, just before Andy chimes in that this is a CN vs. US thing, I'll  
put that to bed right now - I lived and worked, by choice, in Shanghai  
for three+ years.  I enjoyed it.  There are unscrupulous business  
people in the US, EU, China, everywhere, poor manners and lack of  
respect doesn't obey national boundaries.

Chris

On 18 Apr 2008, at 07.54, Matthew Rubenstein wrote:

> 	No, spams are not welcome to nearly anyone on the Internet, and are  
> in
> fact illegal in the US because they are so hated. Just because you,
> Andy, are a spammer who likes getting it yourself doesn't mean that
> spamming *everyone* is OK.
>
> 	This spam was directed not to the asterisk-biz list, but to  
> individual
> people whose email addresses have appeared on the list. It's OK to  
> send
> the *unsolicited*, *commercial* message to the -biz list: that's what
> the list is for, and subscribers have *asked* for those messages. All
> that's necessary is that the message's subject be asterisk business
> (this message would qualify, *if* it were sent only to the list  
> itself,
> not its members individually). List members don't necessarily want to
> see every message sent to it. Many of us get the list in "digest"  
> form,
> which compiles sometimes dozens of distracting messages throughout the
> day into one distracting message. Which comes packaged as
> "asterisk-biz", so we can filter it, either manually by looking at its
> subject and sender, or with our email program's automatic filters.
>
> 	This spam did not use the accepted way we expect to get commercial
> messages from the list. Instead it *exploited the list* by harvesting
> email addresses from it, then *directly sending messages* to those
> addresses. That technique avoids the system of expectations and
> protections we use that make an *exception* for the -biz list, and
> instead is just spam. Targeted spam, so we're more likely to read it,
> even if we're not interested. That's dishonest - and, in the US,
> probably criminal.
>
> 	Andy, you want these kinds of messages, you can get them *when  
> they're
> sent to the list*. You can Google for them. There are marketing
> companies who would love to have your name on their list, which often
> work with conventions (like VON, etc) to sign you up to all kinds of
> vendors, specific to all kinds of interests you might tell them. But
> just because you've got a tolerance (and perhaps a fetish) for spam
> doesn't mean the rest of us find it acceptable. *We don't.*
>
> 	Something like 95% of all email is now spam, which means it's not  
> just
> annoying, but it also means that even if we use automatic spam
> protection, we're all paying higher costs just to transport all that
> worthless email, that will never be read, around the Internet that  
> we're
> all paying for.
>
> 	Andy, you started using this list by spamming it with messages for
> products *not related* to the Asterisk, the *only* subject of
> unsolicited  commercial messages that is allowed on this list. You got
> beat up over it, more than once, but you learned better and now behave
> like a responsible member. Before, your messages *made your market  
> hate
> you*, which means that all those messages were a waste (and worse),
> because their commercial effect was bad. This new spam is even  
> worse. It
> destroys the initial trust required to start commerce just by  
> appearing
> in inboxes the way it does. It's got the commercial value of the drug
> and sex spams that come in through the day - right down to its style,
> mostly an image of text, used to bypass spam filters. That's cheating,
> and only fools do business with cheaters. I'm disappointed to see that
> you don't understand the basic point about spam. And that you're not
> wise enough to understand that just because you want something bad,  
> that
> doesn't mean the rest of the community will want it, so it's not OK to
> send it.
>
> 	Spam sucks. Don't make your business equal "sucks". Basic business
> principles, unless you're selling sex or drug crap to suckers.
>
>
> On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 03:39 -0500, asterisk-biz-request at lists.digium.com
> wrote:
>> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:39:31 +0800
>> From: "Andy Spring" <andyspr at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] NovoGate SIP/H323 16/32 FXS/FXO Channel
>>        Bank
>> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
>>        <asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>
>> Message-ID:
>>        <e236cf240804180139l33a9ef5ha9782abaa6b20db7 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312"
>>
>> but if jimmy pan do not send these spams, how can I know they can
>> provide
>> these products which I am interested, so some spam maybe are not
>> useful to
>> you but useful to some other people. So welcome spams if the spamer  
>> is
>> in
>> honesty not like some spamers only send spam but reply nothing.
>>
>> 2008/4/18, Christopher LILJENSTOLPE <cdl at asgaard.org>:
>>>
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>>> Nope Andy - there is no such thing as good and useful spams.
>>>
>>>       Chris
>>>
>>> On 18 Apr 2008, at 00.42, Andy Spring wrote:
>>>
>>>> Welcome good and useful spams
>>>>
>>>> 2008/4/18, Christopher LILJENSTOLPE <cdl at asgaard.org>: -----BEGIN
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>>>> Yup - just dropped him into the spam filter.
>>>>
>>>>       Chris
>>>>
>>>> On 17 Apr 2008, at 16.04, Matthew Rubenstein wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>      Is anyone else getting spammed by Jimmy Pan
>> <jimmypan at icstel.com
>>>>>
>>>>> directly to your direct email address, with the quoted/appended
>>>>> message,
>>>>> plus a big image of their product (including more pitch text and
>>>>> contact
>>>>> info in pixels) in the message?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 00:22 +0200, Jimmy Pan wrote:
>>>>>> Dear Sir ,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.icstel.com/novogate.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are interested in this item, pls let us know. Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jimmy Pan
>>>>>> I.C.S. France
>>>>>> 38 Rue Dunois,  75013 Paris France
>>>>>> Tel: 0033 1 77 69 58 67 Fax: 0033 1 56 61 28 33
>>>>>> E-mail: jimmypan at icstel.com  Website: http://www.icstel.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> (C) Matthew Rubenstein
> -- 
>
> (C) Matthew Rubenstein
>
>

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李柯睿
Check my PGP key here:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCB67593B

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