[asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
Zoa
zoachien at securax.org
Tue Dec 18 13:41:56 CST 2007
I don't think a java applet can be hosted code, as it will get
downloaded before execution.
Zoa
Steve Totaro wrote:
> "Should" or "has to" be is the question here. If developed for an
> in-house or even a hosted app, there is no mandate that the code be
> given back to anybody. I am not into telling people what they should
> and shouldn't do, I offer advice based on my very limited knowledge only.
>
> The decision to share is up to the person holding the code and the
> contract that I signed and am therefore bound to.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Totaro
>
> Jim Capp wrote:
>
>> Steve,
>>
>> I'm confused. Isn't the code that was developed related to the JIAX
>> already GPL and therefore should be returned to the community anyway?
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve Totaro wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Dean,
>>>
>>> I wish it were mine to give back.
>>>
>>> I worked with/for a group. It is not my IP since it was not my code and
>>> even the stuff I did myself (not very useful anyways) was on contracted
>>> time. The contract was very specific about who owned the IP to any code
>>> developed. Technically, by contract I should not have any code in my
>>> possession at this point.
>>>
>>> The point is, the JIAX code could and has been easily modified to create
>>> a free Java web based IAX softphone if someone just did it. To me, that
>>> indicates lack of demand (in the opensource area anyways).
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Steve Totaro
>>>
>>> Dean Collins wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Steve,
>>>> I'm confused about why you decided not to use your development or offer
>>>> it back to the community?
>>>>
>>>> If you've got it and don't want to use it I'm sure there are some people
>>>> on the list that would like to see what you've done and implement it on
>>>> a no-support basis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Dean Collins
>>>> Cognation Pty Ltd
>>>> dean at cognation.net
>>>> +1-212-203-4357
>>>> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-biz-
>>>>> bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2007 10:49 AM
>>>>> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
>>>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Dean,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you may be right on the money with JIAX and the real demand
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> for a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> web based phone. I worked with a group that "fixed" the freely
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> available
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> JIAX code (by Mikael Magnusson http://www.hem.za.org/jiaxclient ) but
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> had
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> no interest in giving the code back to wild, nor selling it. It did
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> not
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> take a few good Java guys very long to get it working the same as
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Mexuar's.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I was able to compile a workign jar from source myself with a few
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> changes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> and I am not a Dev guy, let alone a Java guy at all (but it took me
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> better part of week).
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that the demand is not really there (yet). Most real world
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> people
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> would rather pick up a real phone and dial a toll free number than don
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> headset with mic and make a call via browser. I think it has some wow
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> power
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> to "our kind", but I think the average Joe would not use this until
>>>>> convergence is more complete to avoid putting on headphones (like a
>>>>> bluetooth link from PC to a hardphone or cell).
>>>>>
>>>>> It is similar to many companies that I consult for. The people in the
>>>>> company want to know the bare essentials to use the phones. Sometimes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> higher ups are interested in advanced functionality but more often
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> than not,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> they just want something to replace (insert phone system here) in
>>>>> functionality with a few remote phones or remote offices. During the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> sales
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> cycle however, they are wowed by the possibilities which certainly
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> helps and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> stands out from the crowd since there are no material nor licensing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> costs,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> just time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Steve Totaro
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Dean Collins" <Dean at cognation.net>
>>>>> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
>>>>> <asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:42 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> My suggestion was a $25 one off license per simultaneous call.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eg you run a small asterisk server in your office where people may
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> use
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> it from time to time then it's a one off $25 fee.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you run a website with a community of users who get together to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> chat
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> with each other and want to restrict it to 10 people at once then
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> your
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> fee would be $250
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And lets face it if you cant/wont pay $25 then you aren't really
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> serious
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> at any price.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The question in the founders mind always was....how many people
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> actually
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> want to buy this product (at any fee) and how many would use it if
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> was free but really don't want it bad enough to fire up a paypal
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> account
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> or similar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the end of the day Tim spent a long time developing the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> application
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> (and at only 125k in size it's a work of art), office space, rent,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> food
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> and telephony, sales people/tech support salaries all cost money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> Mexuar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> needs a return on their investment to cover their costs and a profit
>>>>>> return.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the end of the day they chose to go with the high end unlimited
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> use
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> for a single reasonable fee of $US2,000 which means any service
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> provider
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> or large company could implement it quite easily and they offered an
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> ASP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> service for one off licenses with a monthly fee.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What confuses me about this whole space is JIAX.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If there is an existing free application available, albeit free and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> not
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> perfect, why haven't more people chosen to spend time fixing this or
>>>>>> offered bounties for it's improvement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the end of the day maybe there just aren't as many people looking
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> use this functionality as 'perceived' and my proposal is wrong. As
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> it's
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> not my investment I think the founders of Mexuar made the right
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> choice.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Will be interesting to see if a lot of people chime in on this
>>>>>> discussion and I'm shown to be right and there is a market for $25
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> per
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> simultaneous call licenses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dean Collins
>>>>>> Cognation Pty Ltd
>>>>>> dean at cognation.net
>>>>>> +1-212-203-4357
>>>>>> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-biz-
>>>>>>> bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Rubenstein
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2007 7:33 AM
>>>>>>> To: Mike Clark
>>>>>>> Cc: Asterisk -Biz
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> $5 per end user is way too much for little Web apps like
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> chatrooms or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> sales/cust-svc chats, or anything where a given random user from
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> public on the Web isn't going to return at least $10 a year in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> profit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> from which that license can be paid. Even $5 per running instance
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> too
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> high. The problem isn't so much the price, but just a per-instance
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> fee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> as a limit to scale.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The solution is a license fee on a middleware server with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> traffic
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> capacities, and a free client. But if the middleware does't offer
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> value
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of its own (beyond being the "key" for the clients to work), then
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> it's
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> going to be a nuisance. In any case, the client should be free.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> Which
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> one impediment to widespread development, which is a reason it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> isn't
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> here yet. But since there is some development, with those bizmodel
>>>>>>> constraints, I'd think there'd be several options already for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> "webpage
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> voice" integrated with the PSTN. These same business constraints
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> don't
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> seem to have eliminated any number of free clients floating around
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> seeing lots of use. Which are then harnessed to support business
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> models
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> relating to the business, not to the software used by the business.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 07:20 -0500, Mike Clark wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They key is not creating a barrier to entry. It would be ideal if
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> I
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> could license a "Mexuar-like" client in small lots of 5 or 10 at
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> price
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of around $10 per license. You might even give away a "free"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> developer
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> pack of 2 licenses so folks can easily get started. This all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> enables
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> little gut to get in the game, and then maybe hit a homerun
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> resulting in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thousands of licenses.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dean Collins wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But Mike the question remains how much is it worth to you to be
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> able to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> do this?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dean Collins
>>>>>>>>> Cognation Pty Ltd
>>>>>>>>> dean at cognation.net
>>>>>>>>> +1-212-203-4357
>>>>>>>>> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> [mailto:asterisk-biz-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Mike Clark
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, 17 December 2007 5:22 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: email at mattruby.com; Commercial and Business-Oriented
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> Asterisk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Discussion
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Matthew Rubenstein wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dean, how would you describe Mexuar, with its embeddable
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> but
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> proprietary IAX applet, in that context?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ...snipped a bunch..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not Dean, but I'll comment here.I evaluated Mexuar and
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> really
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> liked
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> it, but they had no good mechanism for a small developer to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> get
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> started.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They wanted a substantial up front licensing fee to get going.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> OTOH,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> you turned out to be successful, it was a good deal because it
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> was a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> time fee.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ribbit has a totally different model as they are a full blown
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ITSP and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> have provided a Flex/Actionscript API to their Flash phone
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> component
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> no charge to developers. I have an app ready to roll as soon
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> as
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> they
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> completely live.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would love to see a similar type API to a Flash SIP or IAX2
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> component
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> where I could access my own Asterisk or Freeswitch server.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mike Clark
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (C) Matthew Rubenstein
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
>
> asterisk-biz mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>
More information about the asterisk-biz
mailing list