[asterisk-users] Royalty for On Hold Music ?

[Paul]

The thread is about music on hold. Things such as playing local radio
stations in a waiting room are not related. I don't think there is
anything illegal about using normal over the air radio and TV for such
purposes as long as it stays in the local market area.

Stephen Bosch wrote:

>John Novack wrote:
>  
>
>>>The fact that ASCAP goes on "campaigns" doesn't make it any less absurd
>>>(or, for that matter, any more likely that the average business is going
>>>to be taken to task); the reality is that thousands upon thousands of
>>>interconnects install PBX systems with radio ports on them that are
>>>plugged into cheap transistor radios bought at Wal-Mart and similar
>>>places, and nobody -- not the client, nor the interconnect -- has any
>>>clue about any royalty obligations that entails. People do it, think
>>>nothing of it (not least because the PBX vendors promote it as a
>>>feature!) and I think neither ASCAP nor any other royalty agency has the
>>>necessary resources to make even a dent in this kind of use.
>>>  
>>>      
>>>
>>Simply put - tell it to the judge.
>>    
>>
>
>As soon as I see one, I'd be happy to.
>
>  
>
>>Drivers speed , change lanes, cut others off every day and MOSTLY get 
>>away with it.
>>Doesn't make it legal, does it?
>>    
>>
>
>The difference between that and the piped-in radio is that drivers who
>speed, change lanes and cut others off *know* they are breaking the law,
>and most people who pipe "The Fuzz 104" into their waiting rooms neither
> "know they are breaking the law", nor do they much care. They can
>switch to NPR if they get a letter.
>
>Seriously -- this is totally unenforceable, and most reasonable people
>would take a legal threat to stop "listening to the radio" (which is how
>they're going to see it) as ridiculous and insulting, even if they *do*
>end up complying.
>
>  
>
>>Not any different than stealing software is it?
>>    
>>
>
>I happen to think that listening to commercial radio broadcast over
>public airwaves, whether it's over the speaker in the ceiling or the
>radio on my porch, is a whole lot different from stealing software, yes.
>
>  
>
>>>It's one thing if you're Dell or Microsoft and you are using music for your call centre, and another if you're the neighbourhood dental practice.
>>>  
>>>      
>>>
>>In the eyes of the law, it makes NO difference.
>>    
>>
>
>Lots of things are ugly in the eyes of the law. That doesn't change how
>people actually behave. Only real consequences do.
>
>I'm talking about what is happening on the street here, not the world as
>you prefer to see it. I have no trouble seeing the dollar signs in the
>eyes of the legal barracudas on the payroll of the various licencing
>agencies; that doesn't make their enforcement right, reasonable, or
>actually happen, for that matter. There are practical limitations on how
>many Mom and Pop operations they can go after.
>
>  
>
>>Do it until you are caught, you say?
>>    
>>
>
>Hey -- *I'm* not doing it :) I'm just looking around at the thousands of
>people around me who are.
>
>The music business has a horrible public perception problem, and also an
>enforcement problem. Chasing after people who are piping commercial
>radio into their premises only alienates more of the general public, the
>very people they are trying to get to buy their product.
>
>I'm merely relaying the reaction of the average independent business
>person to such a request: "You want me to do *what*? Come *on*."
>
>  
>
>>>I'd be interested in getting in touch with any small businesses which have been given a "cease and desist" letter or demand for payment because they piped radio into their phone systems.
>>>      
>>>
>>Not only their phone systems but their waiting rooms
>>
>>Next time you go into an office or store and you see the yellow ASCAP 
>>label on the door, you know they probably have gotten a letter.
>>    
>>
>
>I have never, ever seen such a label on the door of any professional
>office. Feel free to introduce me to someone who has one (and I'm not
>kidding.)
>
>  
>
>>MANY interconnects now have discovered they can make extra by selling a 
>>message on hold system that not only hawks the wares of the firm but 
>>escapes the clutches of ASCAP.
>>    
>>
>
>Introduce me to some. I'm always keen to learn.
>
>  
>
>>You remind me of a friend who enjoys a good argument with a tree stump.
>>    
>>
>
>I only argue with stumps that talk. *You* remind me of the guy on the
>freeway who calls the highway patrol because somebody cut someone else off.
>
>I felt compelled to speak up because I see a certain constituency that
>snaps to salute when big money waves an attorney's letter in their
>faces. There are lots of laws on the books that nobody pays heed to
>anymore, like town by-laws which say the mayor has to give a guy he's
>just kicked out of town a horse and a week's rations. Laws are written
>by people for people (more often, by people to serve the interests of
>certain other people) and for specific contexts and circumstances. They
>serve a purpose. They are not stone slabs that Moses brought down from
>the mountain. That's the reason why community standards matter in the
>enforcement of the law.
>
>As they say in the military: the map is not the territory.
>
>Again, please introduce me to someone who's been threatened or served
>because they were piping radio somewhere (even better, someone who has
>lost a court action because of it). I would like to be educated.
>
>-Stephen-
>
>
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