[Asterisk-Users] List tips for new subscribers <--sorry for 2nd post, missed this.

[Gary G. Hendershot]

The voice of reason speaks ...  Thank you Mr. Critchfield

I have been taken to task on this list for

  1)  top posting ... I still do it because Outlook defaults to it and I
prefer to see the most recent comment in a thread at the top of the page,
not the bottom ... Other are entitled to their opinion and I certainly would
not flame anyone for making me dig to the bottom of the page to see their
comments ...

  2)  posting in HTML ... I like HTML in normal email ... It improved the
appearance ... However, on this issue I bow to public pressure and do my
best to post in plain text ...  However, my system defaults to HTML and it
is possible for me sometimes forget to change format ... It's a shame some
folks have nothing better to do than blast others for minor issues ...

  3)  using a signature line ... the IT guy here at my office insists that
everyone have a signature line ... The legal types insist that we put all
sorts of legal disclaimers at the bottom of each email ... You have no idea
what a pain it was for me get them to let me send email to this list without
the signature line ...

However, I have also gotten some GREAT HELP from this list ... By and large
the help I have gotten has been provided with patience and in the spirit of
one user helping another beat a problem ... Even some of the jerks on the
list have hidden valuable help within their flames ... All in all, I have
found the list to be a great resource ... Without the list and the WIKI I
don't think I ever could have gotten Asterisk running ...

Who am I ???  Just another newbie struggling to get my mind around a fairly
complex piece of software ... I am also the Chief Technical Officer for a
small consulting firm with over 200 active clients ...  I am in a position
to influence buying decisions for about 2500 seats ... Should any of you
care ???  Nope, because my influence will not put a penny in your pocket and
I suspect some out there can influence a lot more seats than I can ... But
pissing me off and others like me wont put a penny in your pocket either ...
Then again there are a lot of folks who are so small, that the only way they
can feel big is to try to make others feel small ... 

This thread has been beaten to death ... Next !!!

G.Hendershot



-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Critchfield [mailto:critch at basesys.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 12:04 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] List tips for new subscribers <--sorry for 2nd
post, missed this.

On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 08:54 -0700, Colin Anderson wrote:
> >This list is for discussions among users of Asterisk, not a getting 
> >started hotline for beginners. Beginners learn by reading 
> >documentation and examining the sample files included.
> 
> Mmm, I (respectfully) disagree. One of the unstated objectives of 
> mechanisms like this list is to evangelize the platform. Obviously, we 
> all want it to do well. You can only do that by creating mindshare. 
> You create mindshare by winning people over. You win people over in a 
> technical context by helping them wrap their heads around the concept 
> and implement it. Sometimes, this involves hand-holding, as I do with my
boss, my boss' boss etc every day.

Why evangelize to those who have already at least put forth the effort to
get here? You also don't increase mindshare here, you do that at your LUG or
other networking levels. 

As far as hand-holding, maybe that is the name of the next mailing list
needed. Noobs aren't to be disrespected but the people who expect to get
their business up and running via handholding and not having to pay for the
consultant can go over to the handholding list and be safely ignored.

As for what you do with your boss and or any level of management above you
is why you have a job. Your boss is doing exactly what we expect some users
here to do. When it either goes beyond their capacity or beyond what effort
they are willing to put forth, they must pay for the support. 

I'm sure I'm not the only one that first gages the effort exhibited in the
messages that I actually read. If it appears the person has actually put
forth effort, they get treated very well. The less effort exhibited, the
less I care about the person. Effort is usually exhibited by the question
asked. If it is about a specific detail, the user obviously has learned
enough already to get to asking about a detail. Asking if asterisk can make
coffee, do the laundry, sense the bladder level... No effort was applied.

> Look, there are two kinds of people (on the list): One that can deal 
> with the technical implementation of Asterisk and have no problem with 
> it, and the other kind, that get fired up about the *concept* but are 
> short of the chops to make it happen. We ignore the second kind at our 
> own peril (I actually should have said "you guys" instead of "we" 
> because I am in-between the two types). I can see a scenario where if 
> the platform becomes inaccessible to PHB / noob types because of 
> things like attitude, Asterisk will be relegated to "also-ran" status 
> with such illustrious company as the Amiga, which still has an 
> incredibly vocal minority that insists that Amiga still r00lz, but 
> nobody listens to them and considers them crackpots who should Just Get
Over It.

As with everything else in life, when there are only 2 options you probably
oversimplified. Take my comments above and apply them to your thoughts here
and you get at least a 3 dimensional graph where people lie somewhere on the
3 axis. X axis is technical now how, Y axis is conceptualizers, and the Z
axis is the amount of effort willing to be applied. 

Of course I am sure there are other factors to be added into that as well.

> We *know* Asterisk is a category-redefining platform. We *know* it is 
> Insanely Great. But ticking people off with brusque answers and flames 
> will
> *not* win the hearts and minds of potential adopters. *1-2
> 
> *1 As far as the previous "black box" comment goes (where an 
> implementor doesn't want someone to know about the inner workings, so 
> they can charge $$$), there is a certain truth to that, and, while GPL 
> allows for that, it is completely contrary to the spirit of the 
> platform and makes the Asterisk community no better than (insert your 
> favorite telecom player whipping boy
> here)

There are many users who don't care about the implementation. That is part
of the reason that people haven't cared about building open solutions
previously. I am guessing, but I doubt most integrators care much about the
internals. They only care about their interface and what level of stability
they can provide. 

> *2 Are you so fussy about how your inbox or whatever is displayed that 
> you are willing to alienate a potential adopter because he top posts 
> or uses HTML? Come on you guys, who cares? What if you pissed off the 
> CTO of a Fortune 500 and he ruled out an Asterisk rollout because he 
> took your flames personally? (sounds like a stretch, but I find it 
> plausible) You didn't do too much to help the platform that day, did you?

Fortune 500 companies are lemmings. They don't tend to go out on a limb.
It is rare that a fortune 500 made it where they did by being very
innovative. If the CTO of a fortune 500 made it here, he probably is only
doing it for fun. The CTO would  have delegated down about 3 levels of
management before it hit someone who needs to do real work.

As for how one uses email... It is very analogous to speaking etiquette.
You where taught not to interupt while another is speaking, you are taught
to enunciate, and most are reminded not to ramble. If someone comes up to
you and doesn't follow those rules, you might well brush them aside and work
your way on to something else. Why is email any different? There are plenty
of arguments against HTML in email for 99.999% of email. If you haven't
figured out the superiority of replying inline with quoted messages, your
about equivalent to the rambling speaker. 
--
Steven Critchfield <critch at basesys.com>