[Asterisk-Users] Features you'd like to see in a GUI?

Thu Aug 4 21:56:05 MST 2005

I have to agree, in a world where ip telephony is emerging as a next
generation pbx system, you have to expect that companies will offer it
on their terms.  Unhappy customers go with the territory, but in a
business sense bicom is only trying to support their product the best
that they can.

After all, this is open source, all of us have to support it, make
suggestions, and do what we can to further the technology.  

If someone does not like the product, they can go somewhere else, it's a
free country.  This list however, is not a place to take out your anger
because you are not happy.

I have seen corporations invest over 50K in products, and an up
scratching it for something else. Anyone seen the latest voipsupply
sales on cisco equipment, what do you think caused that?

I have spent a lot of money myself on things in which I was not happy
with the outcome, including products from Cisco and many others, but I
have not tried to publically bash the companies.  After all, they do
need to pay their expenses and such.  I can say that what I have learned
has proven to be an important skill, one which will only be beneficial
in the future.

Sounds like someone expects too much...

This list is a valuable resource for all of us who wish to use voice
over ip telephony to both further our knowledge and experise, and use
these skills to benefit ourselves, and our clients.

If everyone was unhappy with products in the market, there would be no
new innovations.

Personally, I think if a person has a problem, they should either do
something to correct it by creating something better, or keep their
offensive opionions to themselves.

Just my 2 cents...

Regards,
Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Kanuri,
Seshu (Company IT)
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:35 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Features you'd like to see in a GUI?

Senad,

I don't want to take this conversation much further and send a laundry
list of issues we faced with Switchware to this forum, and the myriads
of bugs we have wrestled with in the past 18 months, as that list is too
long and this forum is not for that purpose. 

>In addition, our clients we deal on regular basis do  not "disappear". 
>Each and every client is looked after by us.
> They do not, "install" the software try it and then come back  after 
>several weeks/months and start the install process all  over again... 
>That is not a workable model for anyone.

The answer to your above comments is already known to you and it is
already mentioned in Para-1. As you already knew, the two install
efforts by me, one in September-October 2004 and  One in
November-December 2004 have failed to install a working software. On
several occasions when I have reverted back to you on giving me a
working version, your answer ( as well as Stephen Wingfield's ) was that
Bicom don't have one ready. 

Infact, as I remember this correctly, Switchware was taken out of your
product list due to these issues. Moreover is it ethical or legitimate
to sell a software that has to be installed only by your technical team
and works only on a specific hardware for a given network card and for a
given IP. You don't even have a tarball to download and install till
today, let alone a CD image?. This is not the way products are sold,
where everything is closed, even the features of Asterisk that are
available otherwise.

> Our "installed" clients certainly do not try to look into our source 
> code and then say "it is not working".

I don't understand what you mean by looking into your source code, but
if you mean that "once Switchware is installed, live with what Bicom
allows you to do with Asterisk, and dont ask questions like 'Why Cannot
I use  4 Digit extensions' or 'Why cant I use ASTCC with Switchware' or
'Why cannot I create more than X number of channels'" or millions of
other such questions, my answer is that this is totally out of line with
the purpose of Asterisk as an Open Source software and if Digium knew
what is going on, probably you are going to have legal issues as far as
the GPL of the code is concerned, in the same way Sysmaster did with
their SM7000 products.

Your Channel Locking and per channel pricing poilicy I am sure will put
Oracle and Larry Ellsion to shame.

I feel that Bicom should have spent more time making Switchware or
PBXware work cleanly, rather than spending most of the time in
copyprotecting and closed sourcing Asterisk so that if the customer has
to move the installation to another server, they have to call you for a
new license code and pay you for the installation, rather than doing it
himself. 

This is against the open source philosophy we are all trying to benefit
from.

Seshu Kanuri

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Senad J
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:47 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Features you'd like to see in a GUI?

> If your intention is just to build a GUI for Asterisk, read no 
> further.
> If your desire is to build something more purposeful, your best bet 
> would be to see the existing commercial GUI/HostedPBX offerings like 
> Pbxware and Switchware from bicomsystems.com (
> http://www.bicomsystems.com) and Thirdlane Technologies
> (http://www.thirdlane.com/opensource.htm)
> and
> the Open Source software like AMP and try to emulate (or preferably 
> improve upon) them.
>
> My suggestion is to create a "VOIP Business in a Box System" that has 
> inter-alia following list of modules:
>
> 1) GUI To configure Administer Asterisk Extensions across many servers
> 2) Postpaid and Prepaid Billing modules with realtime call progress 
> detection and call cut-off 3)CRM Module for customers to register and 
> provide their information for recurring billing.
> 4)Web based conference room management module 5)Web based click to 
> dial and callback module
>
> Many of these modules are already available on Open Source like 
> SugarCRM, AsreskiCC etc., and Asterisk at home CD contains AMP and 
> SugarCRM at this time, besides other Open Source utilities like 
> PhpMyAdmin.
>
> Here is the bottomline:
> ----------------------
> The real need is for a commercially deployable solution that can 
> create a business, without too many additions to it.
>
> Bicom Systems has promised for too long that their Pbxware and 
> Switchware can fullfill this need to create a business, but they never

> deliverd their promise. PBXware and Switchware have been a total and 
> expensive disappointment to me and for the few who invested in them.

I would not normally reply on a post like this, but since you are
publicly expressing your opinion on products and services that we offer,
I must defend our years of work.

We have PBXware and SWITCHware deployed at many locations around the
globe - all working just fine. The combination of SWITCHware and other
applications (Billing, CMS, Products & Services Database, Media Proxy,
SER, Cluster servers etc) form what we call "Telco in a BOX". We have
deployed such solutions in North America, Europe and shortly Asia. Our
clients are small to medium and some of largest blue chip corporate
companies in the world and even Chip Manufacturers. Our distributors
include approved Digium distributors and have been deploying our
products with no major issues.

As for "expensive disappointment" ... What is expensive ?
If you mean a small switch costing several thousands or complete
solutions costing several hundred of thousands. Take your pick  ...

In addition, our clients we deal on regular basis do not "disappear".
Each and every client is looked after by us. They do not, "install" the
software try it and then come back after several weeks/months and start
the install process all over again... That is not a workable model for
anyone.

Our "installed" clients certainly do not try to look into our source
code and then say "it is not working".

As for putting "Business in a BOX"  and any of the many other projects
together of which this list has had to endure from you in the past 24
months, we wish you the best of luck and trust that they neither have
proved too expensive or disappointing to discourage you further.

Senad Jordanovic
www.bicomsystems.com

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