Thank You guys !<br><br>I appreciate you all coming up to this forum and speaking on behalf of me. Actually I kept myself quiet, thinking whether it would be appropriate to come forward and say something to Mr.Alex the so called self proclaimed lingo genius, but then as one of my dear friend rightly put, that I did not had the time to waste unlike Alex who made his mark by sitting and passing judgment. <br>
<br>There are more important things to do, while Alex was sitting here making other believe that others are wrong, me at the other hand managed to secure clients who were not interested in how i was talking or writing but rather what I was presenting to them and in what manner.<br>
<br>A good example is to look at Japanese or Chinese. If you wanna do business with them they do not communicate in written or spoken English.So take the hint.<br>And this is for you Mr.Alex next time when you decide to correct some one please do it discreetly. This is morally and ethically an appropriate way to do.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 10:31 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:asterisk-biz-request@lists.digium.com">asterisk-biz-request@lists.digium.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Foip solution (Trixter aka Bret McDanel)<br>
2. Re: Foip solution (Alex Balashov)<br>
3. Re: Foip solution (James Sharp)<br>
4. Re: Foip solution (James Sharp)<br>
5. Re: Foip solution (Trixter aka Bret McDanel)<br>
6. Re: Foip solution (Trixter aka Bret McDanel)<br>
7. Re: Foip solution (Trixter aka Bret McDanel)<br>
8. Re: Foip solution (Alex Balashov)<br>
9. Re: Foip solution (Trixter aka Bret McDanel)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:49:42 -0700<br>
From: Trixter aka Bret McDanel <<a href="mailto:trixter@0xdecafbad.com">trixter@0xdecafbad.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Foip solution<br>
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com">asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <1270007382.5331.73.camel@trixeee><br>
Content-Type: text/plain<br>
<br>
On 03/29/2010 02:10 PM, James Sharp wrote:<br>
> >> I suspect that the latency involved in satellite IP connections creates<br>
> >> a whole additional level of problem with fax.<br>
> ><br>
<br>
latency isnt as big of a problem as people pretend it is. Jitter and<br>
packet loss are the real killers.<br>
<br>
Do the math of a TDM circuit from los angeles to london, new delhi or<br>
any of the other places that it works. TDM does have latency but it<br>
doesnt have jitter and loss on the same order that IP networks do.<br>
<br>
For the people that want to correct me TDM does have jitter, for example<br>
when a sonet link switches over due to a sewer contractor going crazy<br>
with a backhoe. It is just not that common, which is the point I made<br>
above.<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Trixter <a href="http://www.0xdecafbad.com" target="_blank">http://www.0xdecafbad.com</a> Bret McDanel<br>
pgp key: <a href="http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8AE5C721" target="_blank">http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8AE5C721</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:53:45 -0400<br>
From: Alex Balashov <<a href="mailto:abalashov@evaristesys.com">abalashov@evaristesys.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Foip solution<br>
To: <a href="mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com">asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4BB2C749.5090207@evaristesys.com">4BB2C749.5090207@evaristesys.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
On 03/30/2010 11:49 PM, Trixter aka Bret McDanel wrote:<br>
<br>
> On 03/29/2010 02:10 PM, James Sharp wrote:<br>
>>>> I suspect that the latency involved in satellite IP connections creates<br>
>>>> a whole additional level of problem with fax.<br>
>>><br>
><br>
> latency isnt as big of a problem as people pretend it is. Jitter and<br>
> packet loss are the real killers.<br>
<br>
I agree; I did not clearly state it, but meant to imply that the jitter<br>
is likely to be highly variable over satellite links. At least, that's<br>
certainly true in my experience, for various reasons. There is no<br>
physical basis for it, but satellite is probably subject to a higher<br>
degree of oversubscription. I don't actually know.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Alex Balashov - Principal<br>
Evariste Systems LLC<br>
<br>
Tel : +1 678-954-0670<br>
Direct : +1 678-954-0671<br>
Web : <a href="http://www.evaristesys.com/" target="_blank">http://www.evaristesys.com/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 00:44:10 -0400<br>
From: James Sharp <<a href="mailto:jsharp@psychoses.org">jsharp@psychoses.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Foip solution<br>
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com">asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4BB2D31A.2020607@psychoses.org">4BB2D31A.2020607@psychoses.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
Alex Balashov wrote:<br>
> On 03/30/2010 11:49 PM, Trixter aka Bret McDanel wrote:<br>
><br>
>> On 03/29/2010 02:10 PM, James Sharp wrote:<br>
>>>>> I suspect that the latency involved in satellite IP connections creates<br>
>>>>> a whole additional level of problem with fax.<br>
>> latency isnt as big of a problem as people pretend it is. Jitter and<br>
>> packet loss are the real killers.<br>
><br>
> I agree; I did not clearly state it, but meant to imply that the jitter<br>
> is likely to be highly variable over satellite links. At least, that's<br>
> certainly true in my experience, for various reasons. There is no<br>
> physical basis for it, but satellite is probably subject to a higher<br>
> degree of oversubscription. I don't actually know.<br>
<br>
Depends on the satellite link type. Companies like HughesNet use a<br>
large outgoing transponder (from the main earth station to the end<br>
user), and then a single transponder that gets TDM'd between all of the<br>
customer's return links. Depending on how loaded the TDM return link<br>
is, latency can be all over the place.<br>
<br>
The system I built out used the large outgoing transponder + TDM return<br>
link as well, but when it detected that a latency/jitter/packet loss<br>
sensitive operation (such as a VOIP/FOIP call), it would switch that one<br>
site to a dedicated chunk of space segment that was no longer TDM'd.<br>
After the call(s) dropped, the site would drop back into TDM mode.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 00:47:18 -0400<br>
From: James Sharp <<a href="mailto:jsharp@psychoses.org">jsharp@psychoses.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Foip solution<br>
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com">asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4BB2D3D6.3010705@psychoses.org">4BB2D3D6.3010705@psychoses.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
Alex Balashov wrote:<br>
<br>
> Interesting. I'd be curious to know how much that kind of access costs<br>
> at sea.<br>
<br>
I want to say that the 1mbps/1mbps service was about $1300/mo, but don't<br>
quote me on that (as I no longer work for the company in question, we<br>
parted on not-so-good terms). The ocean going vessels also required an<br>
auto-tracking gyro-stabilized Ku-band dish package that was (again,<br>
don't quote me) about $30K. But we had reports that one particular<br>
vessel never lost a single phone call or fax call even when taking<br>
16-18ft seas.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 22:09:26 -0700<br>
From: Trixter aka Bret McDanel <<a href="mailto:trixter@0xdecafbad.com">trixter@0xdecafbad.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Foip solution<br>
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com">asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <1270012166.5331.88.camel@trixeee><br>
Content-Type: text/plain<br>
<br>
On Wed, 2010-03-31 at 00:44 -0400, James Sharp wrote:<br>
> Depending on how loaded the TDM return link<br>
> is, latency can be all over the place.<br>
><br>
<br>
the definition of "latency all over the place" is jitter. Its not a<br>
latency problem its a jitter problem. Jitter is the varying<br>
inter-packet arrival time, if it is constant even if it is 1 week later,<br>
there is no jitter.<br>
<br>
<br>
high latency can ruin conversation quality, but not call quality.<br>
conversation quality is harmed because of the psychological trigger of<br>
when the other person is finished speaking and it is your turn. Most<br>
people believe this to be 250-300ms of silence, when you have high<br>
latency people will double on each other. This is not as big of a deal<br>
with fax machines which handle this very well.<br>
<br>
It is jitter and loss that kills faxes not latency.<br>
--<br>
Trixter <a href="http://www.0xdecafbad.com" target="_blank">http://www.0xdecafbad.com</a> Bret McDanel<br>
pgp key: <a href="http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8AE5C721" target="_blank">http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8AE5C721</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 22:13:45 -0700<br>
From: Trixter aka Bret McDanel <<a href="mailto:trixter@0xdecafbad.com">trixter@0xdecafbad.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Foip solution<br>
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com">asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <1270012425.5331.92.camel@trixeee><br>
Content-Type: text/plain<br>
<br>
On Wed, 2010-03-31 at 00:47 -0400, James Sharp wrote:<br>
> Alex Balashov wrote:<br>
><br>
> > Interesting. I'd be curious to know how much that kind of access costs<br>
> > at sea.<br>
><br>
> I want to say that the 1mbps/1mbps service was about $1300/mo, but don't<br>
> quote me on that (as I no longer work for the company in question, we<br>
> parted on not-so-good terms). The ocean going vessels also required an<br>
> auto-tracking gyro-stabilized Ku-band dish package that was (again,<br>
> don't quote me) about $30K. But we had reports that one particular<br>
> vessel never lost a single phone call or fax call even when taking<br>
> 16-18ft seas.<br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
For reference gyro stabilized tracking systems suitable for marine use<br>
are about $6k retail, transceiver dish arrays (LNBs that you stick on a<br>
suitable dish) are $1-2k depending on what you get. If they are doing<br>
24GHz systems for $30k they are ripping people off.<br>
<br>
$1300/mo for 1Mbps satellite is a bit excessive, even the predator<br>
drones which use a 3rd party ISP to relay unencrypted video telemetry<br>
does not cost that much.<br>
<br>
Not saying they didnt charge this, just saying its excessively priced.<br>
--<br>
Trixter <a href="http://www.0xdecafbad.com" target="_blank">http://www.0xdecafbad.com</a> Bret McDanel<br>
pgp key: <a href="http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8AE5C721" target="_blank">http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8AE5C721</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 22:13:45 -0700<br>
From: Trixter aka Bret McDanel <<a href="mailto:trixter@0xdecafbad.com">trixter@0xdecafbad.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Foip solution<br>
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com">asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <1270012425.5331.92.camel@trixeee><br>
Content-Type: text/plain<br>
<br>
On Wed, 2010-03-31 at 00:47 -0400, James Sharp wrote:<br>
> Alex Balashov wrote:<br>
><br>
> > Interesting. I'd be curious to know how much that kind of access costs<br>
> > at sea.<br>
><br>
> I want to say that the 1mbps/1mbps service was about $1300/mo, but don't<br>
> quote me on that (as I no longer work for the company in question, we<br>
> parted on not-so-good terms). The ocean going vessels also required an<br>
> auto-tracking gyro-stabilized Ku-band dish package that was (again,<br>
> don't quote me) about $30K. But we had reports that one particular<br>
> vessel never lost a single phone call or fax call even when taking<br>
> 16-18ft seas.<br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
For reference gyro stabilized tracking systems suitable for marine use<br>
are about $6k retail, transceiver dish arrays (LNBs that you stick on a<br>
suitable dish) are $1-2k depending on what you get. If they are doing<br>
24GHz systems for $30k they are ripping people off.<br>
<br>
$1300/mo for 1Mbps satellite is a bit excessive, even the predator<br>
drones which use a 3rd party ISP to relay unencrypted video telemetry<br>
does not cost that much.<br>
<br>
Not saying they didnt charge this, just saying its excessively priced.<br>
--<br>
Trixter <a href="http://www.0xdecafbad.com" target="_blank">http://www.0xdecafbad.com</a> Bret McDanel<br>
pgp key: <a href="http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8AE5C721" target="_blank">http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8AE5C721</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 8<br>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 01:27:04 -0400<br>
From: Alex Balashov <<a href="mailto:abalashov@evaristesys.com">abalashov@evaristesys.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Foip solution<br>
To: <a href="mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com">asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4BB2DD28.2060809@evaristesys.com">4BB2DD28.2060809@evaristesys.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br>
<br>
On 03/31/2010 01:13 AM, Trixter aka Bret McDanel wrote:<br>
> On Wed, 2010-03-31 at 00:47 -0400, James Sharp wrote:<br>
>> Alex Balashov wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Interesting. I'd be curious to know how much that kind of access costs<br>
>>> at sea.<br>
>><br>
>> I want to say that the 1mbps/1mbps service was about $1300/mo, but don't<br>
>> quote me on that (as I no longer work for the company in question, we<br>
>> parted on not-so-good terms). The ocean going vessels also required an<br>
>> auto-tracking gyro-stabilized Ku-band dish package that was (again,<br>
>> don't quote me) about $30K. But we had reports that one particular<br>
>> vessel never lost a single phone call or fax call even when taking<br>
>> 16-18ft seas.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
> For reference gyro stabilized tracking systems suitable for marine use<br>
> are about $6k retail, transceiver dish arrays (LNBs that you stick on a<br>
> suitable dish) are $1-2k depending on what you get. If they are doing<br>
> 24GHz systems for $30k they are ripping people off.<br>
<br>
What? Specialty, niche hardware and services have a huge price range<br>
and are frequently subject to enormous markup? :-)<br>
<br>
--<br>
Alex Balashov - Principal<br>
Evariste Systems LLC<br>
<br>
Tel : +1 678-954-0670<br>
Direct : +1 678-954-0671<br>
Web : <a href="http://www.evaristesys.com/" target="_blank">http://www.evaristesys.com/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 9<br>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 22:30:52 -0700<br>
From: Trixter aka Bret McDanel <<a href="mailto:trixter@0xdecafbad.com">trixter@0xdecafbad.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Foip solution<br>
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com">asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <1270013452.5331.94.camel@trixeee><br>
Content-Type: text/plain<br>
<br>
On Wed, 2010-03-31 at 01:27 -0400, Alex Balashov wrote:<br>
<br>
> > For reference gyro stabilized tracking systems suitable for marine use<br>
> > are about $6k retail, transceiver dish arrays (LNBs that you stick on a<br>
> > suitable dish) are $1-2k depending on what you get. If they are doing<br>
> > 24GHz systems for $30k they are ripping people off.<br>
><br>
> What? Specialty, niche hardware and services have a huge price range<br>
> and are frequently subject to enormous markup? :-)<br>
<br>
<br>
The prices I quoted were the already marked up niche hardware prices.<br>
Add "marine" to anything and that increases the cost even if it does not<br>
alter the product, why I qualified "suitable for marine use", it is one<br>
that is labeled marine. Its half that if its not :)<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Trixter <a href="http://www.0xdecafbad.com" target="_blank">http://www.0xdecafbad.com</a> Bret McDanel<br>
pgp key: <a href="http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8AE5C721" target="_blank">http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8AE5C721</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
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********************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Kind regards,<br><br><br>Nauman Ibrahim Syed<br>Manager Carrier Relations and Fraud Prevention.<br>Great offer 1000 USA DIDs for 150$.<br>Didx special offer :<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iew-LVDVbLs">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iew-LVDVbLs</a><br>
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