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<body><div style="text-align: left;">> I think you discovered there are a number of facets to making the switch.<br>The complexity level is a bit more than I first anticipated, but its a new technology I'm not familiar with which is cool, I'm learning.<br><br>> Perhaps it would be interesting to compare something like asterisk and<br>> Nortel to knowledgetree/alfresco and SharePoint?<br>At first I was looking at exchange server and possible open source alternatives to that, but then came across Asterisk and decided it was more interesting. I haven't heard of Knowledtree before but it looks like a cool revision system for documents and I'll be making note of it in case i need such a program in the future.<br></div><br>> IMHO your test case is pretty sane. It is possible to use existing Nortel<br>> handsets with an * system, but the cost of doing so is pretty much a wash<br>> with buying all new IP phones. You can get a nice IP phone set for<br>> $200-$300 USD, where the box to use the Nortel handsets is in the $2,500<br>> ballpark. Replacement Nortel sets are "dumb" and still fall in the $300<br>> range. Don't forget about the eBay sale of the old system ;)<br><br>Ah, good, I'm glad to hear its sane! If the equipment to support the existing handsets is more expensive than the new equipment and a set of new IP phones, or comparable, than it is a wash. And I think some "eBay" asset recovery isn't totally out of the question in this case study.<br><br>> There are also a lot of intangibles to consider. The backing of "qualified<br>> engineers" for companies like Avaya, Cisco, etc. vs. the incredible<br>> flexibility of an open source solution. There is also the possibility that<br>> the open source flexibility would give a business some kind of competitive<br>> advantage they would not normally have - depending on the nature of the<br>> business. <br><br>Agreed.<br><br>> If you can find a "scrappy" consultancy that knows their stuff cold the open<br>> source alternative may become very attractive. <br>> <br>> There is a lot of conjecture here.<br><br>Yes, I know, but it is a term paper, and so I think I can make a couple assumptions without losing my credibility :)<br>I want to show the superior feature set, but bottom line, I'm hoping to show its cheaper, without losing performance or support.<br><br>> The most unfortunate thing is that a lot of companies are not interested in<br>> taking the chance. They want something that says "Cisco" on it because they<br>> think that is the only way they are guaranteed support.<br><br>I was even discussing this with a friend, and it was difficult to convince them that an opensource solution would even have such a thing as support. I suppose if my case study company has no IT expertise whatsoever, and don't care about features, the deciding factor would be cost and support. And in a real world situation I can see Cisco winning out to Asterisk/Support company just by name. But in my case study, the other factors get their fair share!<br><br>Thanks for the comments!<br><hr id="stopSpelling">> From: smith@ipmvs.com<br>> To: asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com<br>> Subject: RE: [asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk<br>> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 01:50:02 +0000<br>> <br>> I think you discovered there are a number of facets to making the switch.<br>> <br>> Perhaps it would be interesting to compare something like asterisk and<br>> Nortel to knowledgetree/alfresco and SharePoint?<br>> <br>> It is probably safe to point out that open source often 'displaces' costs.<br>> Shifting the costs from licensing to implementation and from products to<br>> people.<br>> <br>> IMHO your test case is pretty sane. It is possible to use existing Nortel<br>> handsets with an * system, but the cost of doing so is pretty much a wash<br>> with buying all new IP phones. You can get a nice IP phone set for<br>> $200-$300 USD, where the box to use the Nortel handsets is in the $2,500<br>> ballpark. Replacement Nortel sets are "dumb" and still fall in the $300<br>> range. Don't forget about the eBay sale of the old system ;)<br>> <br>> There are also a lot of intangibles to consider. The backing of "qualified<br>> engineers" for companies like Avaya, Cisco, etc. vs. the incredible<br>> flexibility of an open source solution. There is also the possibility that<br>> the open source flexibility would give a business some kind of competitive<br>> advantage they would not normally have - depending on the nature of the<br>> business. <br>> <br>> If you can find a "scrappy" consultancy that knows their stuff cold the open<br>> source alternative may become very attractive. <br>> <br>> There is a lot of conjecture here.<br>> <br>> The most unfortunate thing is that a lot of companies are not interested in<br>> taking the chance. They want something that says "Cisco" on it because they<br>> think that is the only way they are guaranteed support.<br>> <br>> > -----Original Message-----<br>> > From: Byron Pile [mailto:bpile@hotmail.com] <br>> > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:22 PM<br>> > To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion<br>> > Subject: RE: [asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk<br>> > <br>> > Once I get a better idea of what the telecom here provides in <br>> > their contract it might be easier to see what I should <br>> > include in the Asterisk based system.<br>> > <br>> > Is switchvox a proprietary system? Or are they based on <br>> > Asterisk? They don't mention asterisk on the site anywhere. <br>> > I've also noticed Digium offers a support service plan. <br>> > Perhaps this with an estimated initial setup cost would be a <br>> > good comparison to the telecom offering.<br>> > <br>> > I really want to highlight the flexibility and also feature <br>> > set of Asterisk.<br>> > <br>> > Thanks again for your comments!<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > ________________________________<br>> > <br>> > > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:34:22 -0400<br>> > > From: stotaro@totarotechnologies.com<br>> > > To: asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com<br>> > > Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk<br>> > > <br>> > > The bottom line is that you will save money or at the very <br>> > least, over <br>> > > the course of a year or two, break even. Considering some <br>> > proposals I <br>> > > did on NEC IPK systems several years ago, an eight port conference <br>> > > bridge card was $5,000, another $5,000 for an eight port VoIP card <br>> > > MGCP, $3,000 for a four port voicemail card, add some other feature <br>> > > and you get the point. Also, support contracts were <br>> > something to the <br>> > > tune of $4 per port per month, that includes all ports (concurrent <br>> > > voicemail access<br>> > > + phones + PSTN + conference bridges). So lets say that "whatever" <br>> > > company has 4 FXO, 16 FXS, and 4 voicemail, that is a total of 24 <br>> > > ports X $4 = $96/mo X 12mo = $1,152 and that only included <br>> > very specific limits.<br>> > > <br>> > > This is all free in Asterisk. You could purchase a <br>> > Switchvox (or some <br>> > > other turnkey) system pretty cheaply, have all of those <br>> > costly add-on <br>> > > features included, they offer support via SSH and over the <br>> > phone, and <br>> > > with IP, MACs are a breeze. A low level A+ tech can do it, unlike a <br>> > > traditional system where a telephone guy has to come out <br>> > with a butt <br>> > > set, toner, and punch down tool. Most proprietary systems are not <br>> > > exactly easy to program even in a "Turnkey" solution.<br>> > > <br>> > > You have many variables to look at but I think that your <br>> > paper will be <br>> > > a very interesting look into a paradigm shift.<br>> > > <br>> > > Thanks,<br>> > > Steve<br>> > > <br>> > > Byron Pile wrote:<br>> > > > I was going to assume that yes, there are Linux people on <br>> > staff and <br>> > > > that they could be taken away to set up and support asterisk. But <br>> > > > because I was comparing it to a turnkey solution that <br>> > most likely is <br>> > > > including service as part of the contract, comparing it <br>> > to a similar <br>> > > > contract based asterisk setup makes more sense. However, I guess <br>> > > > when starting this I was hoping to eliminate "license" <br>> > fees from the <br>> > > > open source solution, but if I'm using a small company, I <br>> > think its <br>> > > > more realistic to assume they don't have a support <br>> > department ready <br>> > > > to devote man hours to an asterisk system when they were using a <br>> > > > turnkey solution before.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Thanks for clarifying the handsets, I was considering using SIP <br>> > > > phones in the case study, but thought it might be possible to <br>> > > > "reuse" some existing equipment. This is also a <br>> > technology upgrade in this case.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > I was going to assume that the workers were just as productive as <br>> > > > before, but the ROI would come mostly from reduction in operating <br>> > > > costs (hopefully). If they don't have any "linux people" <br>> > on staff, <br>> > > > this makes it harder to include some of the open source benefits <br>> > > > like, fixing bugs, adding features and the other flexibility that <br>> > > > Asterisk would provide over using the Norstar.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Thanks for the response Steve, I have more research to do <br>> > obviously!<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > <br>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> > > > ----<br>> > > > Subject: RE: [asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk<br>> > > > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:59:03 -0500<br>> > > > From: stotaro@asteriskhelpdesk.com<br>> > > > To: asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com<br>> > > ><br>> > > > For several varying quotes, one could go to www.buyerzone.com <br>> > > > <http://www.buyerzone.com/> and put in exactly what you <br>> > specified. <br>> > > > You will get several vendors proposing different systems, prices, <br>> > > > and most importantly, service contracts. It does cost each vendor <br>> > > > about $25 dollars to buy your "lead" so be aware that you are <br>> > > > costing them money by doing this. Whether or not that is <br>> > ethical, is <br>> > > > your decision. I am just pointing out that "one could do <br>> > it". Make <br>> > > > sure to include that you need a conference bridge that can handle <br>> > > > unlimited callers, also unlimited voicemail ports, <br>> > support SIP, and <br>> > > > also consider scaling. That should freak them out.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > <br>> > > ><br>> > > > Does "whatever" company have people on staff that know Linux and <br>> > > > have time to learn and support Asterisk? What is the cost <br>> > of taking <br>> > > > them from what they usually would be doing to work on the <br>> > Asterisk <br>> > > > system?<br>> > > ><br>> > > > <br>> > > ><br>> > > > I would suggest going with SIP phones and a four port FXO board. <br>> > > > You could run both systems side by side until you are <br>> > ready to cut <br>> > > > over and then just switch your four POTs lines.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > <br>> > > ><br>> > > > Most proprietary systems use digital sets so you cannot use a <br>> > > > mutiport FXS board. I have used proprietary handset <br>> > gateways such as <br>> > > > Citel and my person experience was very very poor.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > <br>> > > ><br>> > > > How much ROI is going to depend on increased worker productivity <br>> > > > which is fairly hard to figure out and also ongoing <br>> > average costs of <br>> > > > MACs (cost of Moves Adds Changes) as well as support contracts.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > <br>> > > ><br>> > > > Thanks,<br>> > > > Steve Totaro<br>> > > > http://www.asteriskhelpdesk.com<br>> > > > KB3OPB<br>> > > > <br>> > > > <br>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> > > > ----<br>> > > ><br>> > > > *From:* asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com<br>> > > > [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] *On Behalf <br>> > Of *Byron <br>> > > > Pile<br>> > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:28 PM<br>> > > > *To:* asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com<br>> > > > *Subject:* [asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk<br>> > > ><br>> > > > <br>> > > ><br>> > > > I thought the biz list was most appropriate for this. <br>> > Hope I'm not <br>> > > > wrong!<br>> > > ><br>> > > > I'm trying to write a term paper on adopting an open <br>> > source solution <br>> > > > over a commercial solution and comparing the cost.<br>> > > > Specifically if a legacy system is in use already, when will the <br>> > > > initial investment of hardware for an asterisk based <br>> > system pay off <br>> > > > against the licensing fees of a proprietary system. After <br>> > reading a <br>> > > > good chunk of the free Asterisk book "Asterisk:The Future of <br>> > > > Telephony" I think that Asterisk is an excellent topic for the <br>> > > > paper.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > I'm new to telephony stuff so bear with me if my <br>> > questions are a bit <br>> > > > dumb, I've tried to do quite a bit of research and reading before <br>> > > > posting to the mail lists. So my idea was to use the fake company <br>> > > > "whatever" and they have 15 telephones and are currently using a <br>> > > > Norstar ICS with 4 incoming lines and 15 internal lines <br>> > and I would <br>> > > > like to switch this over to an asterisk based system.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > The reason for choosing the Norstar as this is a turnkey solution <br>> > > > provided by a large local telecom so I will be able to get some <br>> > > > pricing information for them fairly easily and I think it <br>> > does what <br>> > > > a 15 telephone small office might need...I'm open to a better <br>> > > > suggestion if the Norstar is a poor choice.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > My quick questions are...is it possible that the handsets <br>> > being used <br>> > > > with a Norstar could be converted and used with the <br>> > Asterisk system? <br>> > > > (a bit of asset recovery)<br>> > > ><br>> > > > A system consisting of a suitable linux server running <br>> > Asterisk and <br>> > > > a Digium TDM2441B PCI Card 16FXS / 4FXO would be a suitable <br>> > > > replacement and could deliver the same <br>> > performance/functions as the <br>> > > > Norstar system?<br>> > > ><br>> > > > I'm going to try and be as thorough as possible in assessing the <br>> > > > costs in switching to this system. The most obvious being <br>> > some new <br>> > > > hardware, but also, downtime, training, support costs, contract <br>> > > > penalties (if there are any) etc....But this is a term <br>> > paper and a <br>> > > > highly hypothetical situation. And I know my questions are a bit <br>> > > > general, but the paper will probably be kept quite <br>> > general. I hope I <br>> > > > can learn more about this cool app!<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Thanks!<br>> > > ><br>> > > > <br>> > > ><br>> > > > <br>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> > > > ----<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Live Search Maps - find all the local information you need, right <br>> > > > when you need it. Find it!<br>> > > > <http://maps.live.com/?icid=wlmtag2&FORM=MGAC01><br>> > > ><br>> > > > <br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > <br>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> > > > ---- i'm making a difference. Make every IM count for the <br>> > cause of <br>> > > > your choice. Join now!<br>> > > > <br>> > <http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?href=h<br>> > > > ttp://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=wlmailtagline><br>> > > ><br>> > > > <br>> > > <br>> > > _______________________________________________<br>> > > --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --<br>> > > <br>> > > asterisk-biz mailing list<br>> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:<br>> > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > ________________________________<br>> > <br>> > Your friends are close to you. Keep them that way. <br>> > <http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx> <br>> > <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --<br>> <br>> asterisk-biz mailing list<br>> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:<br>> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz<br><br /><hr />Your friends are close to you. <a href='http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx
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