[Asterisk-biz] Asterisk for small businesses.

Fri Feb 18 19:18:01 MST 2005

asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com wrote:
> Alex,
> 
> You certainly represent my views. And others. Have a look at
> this post. It's only 6 weeks old.
>
http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-biz/2005-January/001951.html

>From what I read, the poster was recommending that one not try to
implement Asterisk before acquiring the necessary skills. That's got
nothing to do with Asterisk, it's just good advice.

> But we are quiet.
>
> Tracy was saying he wants to develop a more integrated
> product. I found it already developed. True, it's not
> Asterisk, it has it's limitations. But up to 64 extensions it
> beats Asterisk at real price and all PBX features. 

You may very well have found a product that serves the goals of your
business. There's some creative systems coming out these days - no doubt
about it. How it beats Asterisk with a hard limit like that is difficult
to understand.

Also, when you say "all PBX" features I start to wonder. I have been
involved in hundreds (well, technically thousands) of PBX designs, and I
have NEVER been able to address every "feature" the customer wanted.
There was always some limitation. No matter how many "features" a PBX
has, it always has a limitations that were the result of a design
choice.

> I told everybody on the list and got grilled. 

Well, you are in an Asterisk list, after all. Don't take it too
personally. Flames happpen.

> Now I'm quiet. If they
> want to learn the hard way, I think we should let them. 

Ultimately, there is no other way. It's the path to wisdom. But if you
think that we are not going to succeed, the only thing to do is check
back in a few years. Hey c'mon, you're still hanging around this list
after you've found another product: you know, deep down, that this is
something special, right? Gotta open your mind to a whole new way of
thinking.

> You know the saying: What doesn't kill them, makes them stronger.

I agree with this.

> My hope is that, one day, somebody will do for Asterisk what
> RedHat and other distributions did for Linux. 

In time, you will get your wish. Tell me this: do you plan to contribute
to the effort?

> It seems that
> day it's still far. 

Since you seem to be waiting for Asterisk to look like something you
recognize, you are correct. That may not happen for a few more years (it
could happen sooner, if you decided to make it happen - you could have
the product you desired, completely tailored to your needs).

> Up to then, we are on our own.

I've worked for a rather large telecom company, distributing the
products of Cisco, Nortel, Avaya (all at the platinum level). I have
NEVER seen anything like the quality of support that comes from an open
source community, including Asterisk's. You are not on your own, but you
are also expected to either have, or know how to obtain, the skills
required.

Best of luck to you.

Cheers,

Jim.

--
Jim Van Meggelen
jim at vanmeggelen.ca

> Dan.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alex Pui" <alex.pui at act-labs.com>
> To: "'Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion'"
> <asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 2:19 AM
> Subject: RE: [Asterisk-biz] Asterisk for small businesses.
> 
> 
>> Jim,
>> 
>> Is "tool kit" a product? Is "raw material" a product? I
> think so, and
> they
>> all need to look for a place in market to fit, this is called market
>> positioning, this is a process of productization, and that is my
>> point. 
>> 
>> Thanks for the lessons, that are very educational and mind opening,
>> and I learned a lot from you and the discussion make me better
>> understand the whole thing, and understand with how people would see
>> the same thing in totally different ways. I might represent some
>> readers 
> (business guys,
> not
>> that crazy about technology, may be) here that want to use
> Asterisk to
> run a
>> successful business (easier life, lower start up and running cost and
>> quicker revenue --all these adjective are relative terms)
> and I don't
> see
>> anything wrong with that and I wish this discussion is at least
>> helpful to some of us. 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Alex
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jim Van Meggelen [mailto:jim at vanmeggelen.ca]
>> Sent: February 18, 2005 3:36 PM
>> To: alex.pui at act-labs.com; 'Commercial and Business-Oriented
>> Asterisk Discussion' Subject: RE: [Asterisk-biz] Asterisk for small
>> businesses. 
>> 
>> asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com wrote:
>>> Jim,
>>> 
>>> I read very carefully on what you said here, and I come to an
>>> conclusion that even your tone sounds we are debating, but in fact
>>> we are talking about the same thing : You said : This is NOT a safe
>>> place to be. Asterisk is an extreme sport - wear a helmet! I said :
>>> The productization of Asterisk is not complete, some missing blocks
>>> need to be filled up.
>> 
>> Have you seen the Cisco Call Mangler? The Nortel BCM? Stuff that
>> Avaya is pumping out these days? Any other, closed PBX? If you want
>> to talk about "missing blocks", you've got yourself a gold mine!
>> 
>> Even the brilliant little TalkSwitch is mostly about telecom-type
>> limitations. Now that it supports some type of SIP functionality, it
>> starts to look interesting, but why can't I take control of it and
>> use it as a channel bank? Why can't I redesign the front end? Why
>> can't I reconfigure a few functions to work the way I want them to?
>> Certainly the hardware is not the limiting factor. I have a 4x8 in
>> my lab here, and I enjoy using it as my CO simulator, but it has few
>> other uses - it's too limited. 
>> 
>> Does Asterisk need a pretty face to be complete? I would argue that
>> it does not. In fact, I would argue that putting a front end on it
>> is the exact opposite of what is needed. An IDE would be very
>> useful, but that may have to wait until the code stabilizes a bit.
>> 
>>> I think both of them are good advice to Mike Dent's question
>>> 
>>>  " Now I realise people are not going to disclose their business
>>> winning secrets but I'd welcome any friendly advise from others who
>>> have done this or are doing it at present."
>> 
>> Perhaps some of it has to do with "if you don't understand it, we're
>> not sure how to explain it". 
>> 
>>>  In fact, I appreciate that you have found out my intention to be a
>>> distributorship of Talkswitch, or Multitech, yes, I do, but I want
>>> that gateway to be compatible with Asterisk so Asterisk will become
>>> a feature server which is its strength. But please don't twist my
>>> business idea, I am not looking for a scapegoat if the solution does
>>> not work for my customer, there is no such thing of shifting the
>>> blame to anybody else in business and I have been here more than 25
>>> years, I know that very well.
>> 
>> But you seem to want something that's essentially been built for you.
>> Something you just need to adjust a few settings on. This is OK, but
>> that is a front end - it is not Asterisk. Perhaps someone
> will develop
> a
>> GUI front end for Asterisk that provides you the functionality you
>> need. For you, that will be the day when the gaps in Asterisk are
>> filled in. 
>> 
>> For me, I see a pile of raw materials, and a massive team of
>> enthusiastic and highly-skilled architects, builders and craftsmen.
>> Many have already built sheds, houses, and even a few mansions.
>> Whole towns are popping up everywhere. 
>> 
>> The industry is laughing at us, because they finished building their
>> straw huts years ago. Now they're experimenting with this new
>> material called "VoIP" - they're trying to use it to build better
>> huts. 
>> 
>> As for what we're building: They couldn't even begin to guess what
>> those ugly boxes are good for (althougn I know for a fact that they
>> are very annoyed by all the fun we're having).
>> 
>>> My experience told me that each "product" should have its position
>>> and Asterisk is not exception and it has not found one yet (correct
>>> me if I am wrong).
>> 
>> I don't know who is right and who is wrong. All I can say is that I
>> see Asterisk as more than a product looking for a place to fit.
>> 
>> Asterisk is a toolkit, a technology, a new way of doing things. I can
>> emulate a TalkSwitch with Asterisk. I can emulate anything that any
>> PBX can do. Is it all built in? No, not yet. But the point is that
>> it CAN be. The inherent flexibility is there.
>> 
>> Asterisk works as a gateway, a key system, a PBX, a C.O., a SIP
>> server, a Voicemail an AutoAttendant, an IVR, and any combination
>> thereof. More importantly, it does this with a level of flexibility
>> and customization that is unheard of elsewhere. 
>> 
>> It's still got a long way to go, but when you say you need to figure
>> out where to fit this "product" I say you don't really understand
>> what we have here. Asterisk is the raw materials, the "product" is
>> whatever you choose to build with it. 
>> 
>> It's kind of like building a website. Is LAMP a product? Not really.
>> It's a methodology; a set of tools. Each website is unique, and
>> custom, even though they all are formed from similar building
>> blocks. This is what Asterisk has given to the world of telephony,
>> and it 
> does it with
> a
>> level of flexibility that simply does not exist in the world of
>> traditional telecom. 
>> 

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