[Asterisk-biz] Israel to block International VoIP calls?

[C F]

On 12/17/05, Yair Hakak <yair at hakak.com> wrote:
> see my comments inline.
>
> On 12/17/05, Jean-Michel Hiver <jhiver at ykoz.net> wrote:
> >
> > >4. it's all well and good to say "anyone can open a VOIP company" but
> > >in a country without much competition that doesnt work.
> > >
> > If it doesn't work then you don't need to regulate it. The market will
> > do it. I think your argument is clearly fallacious and there must be
> > another reason pushing your agenda.
> >
>
> uh...no. see below. if you think i have another reason i'd love to
> hear it. we are not the finance ministry, and it's not our job to
> bring in government revenue, if that's the insinuation.
> >
> > >say i want to open a vonage-type service in the US, i have 2 options. either i
> > >register as a CLEC, or i have a relationship with a CLEC, who treats
> > >me as a large customer. the second option is not viable in israel,
> > >because as a new VOIP entrant you're not going to find a CLEC who will
> > >work with you.
> > >
> > >
> > Why not? Just order some PRIs and start working. As I said above, if
> > it's not profitable, then you don't need to regulate it.
> >
> >
> that's exactly the point. NO ONE WILL SELL YOU PRIS because you will
> be their competitors. its not a matter of being profitable, it's a
> matter of the incumbent LEC applying monopolistic power towards you.
> if, on the other hand, you have a license, the incumbent doesnt have a
> choice, and has to sell you PRIs.
>

Why not? here in the US every one is intested in selling me a PRI even
though I want to resell it and become their competitor. I see this
argument being totaly wrong, if one doens't sell me a PRI, then their
competitor will, if the competitor doesn't, then someone will open a
compnay (with a CLEC license) to sell PRIs to all of those that
couldn't get it from the competitor because they will become
competitors. Selling to someone that will resell your product, even if
they end up being your comptition, is called free marketing, since
your customer/competition is doing the marketing for you. Restricting
this benefits *ONLY* the big companies.


> > >so, we're left with registering as a CLEC, or, in our terms, getting a license.
> > >
> > >
> > I suspect that CLECs actually /like/ it that you need to pay a license
> > and taxes on call termination in order to be a telco - especially if you
> > make it a legal requirement for international call termination.
> >
> trust me, they don't. they'd much rather we left them alone. remember
> also that in israel a CLEC cannot be an international provider, and
> vice versa. There is total separation between markets, mainly to
> prevent the former monopolist from using it's monopolistic profits in
> one market to kill another. the international calling providers (who
> are also the large ISPs) are in a very competitive market.
>
> > It raises entry barriers, which means less competition, which in turn
> > means more profit. It also means less jobs and less a competitive
> > economy but I'm not going to give a class on the benefits of free
> > markets here.
> >
> I am a regulatory economist, with an emphasis on economist. no offense
> meant, but i could give the class.
>
> >
> > >remember also that there's no unbundling here (it's not a big country
> > >and unbundling is not exactly an unqualified success elsewhere), which
> > >makes things kind of different.
> > >
> > >
> > I fail to see how. Clearly the "no grey routing" policy is a government
> > enforced market distortion, in favor of big business and government
> > taxes and detrimential to small businesses and entrepreneurs.
> >
> > I think the parrallel with Cuba is quite realistic since grey routing is
> > illegal there too. Same with India and many developing or still very
> > regulated countries, really.
> >
> > As for the size of the country, I think the argument is moot too. EU
> > policies have forced countries to deregulate their markets, and I am
> > unaware of small countries (such as belgium) having major issues with
> > that. If anything, telecoms are booming pretty much in every deregulated
> > country I can think of - wether it's big or small.
> >
> > In fact they are also booming in other regulated countries under various
> > guises / covers. Call centers come to mind.
> >
> > Personally I am happy to live in a country where the telco have been
> > (thanks to EU policing) heavily deregulated and that let me the chance
> > to start a business in this industry and build myself some kind of a
> > future rather than being unemployed or worse, being a work grunt for a
> > big company just because I can't afford a license.
> >
> >
> > >as i said before, i'm happy to talk to anyone about these issues, off
> > >list, at any time, i'm in kind of an interesting position as a voip
> > >enthusiast and a regulator, and i think a dialogue between the
> > >regulators and the open-source voip community is a good thing.
> > >
> > >
> > Well I think 911 type service is very important and is often seen as a
> > high barrier of entry. Having a clean and inexpensive way of dealing
> > with this would be welcome for newcomers in the telco industry.
> >
> our way is free :-)
>
> just out of curiosity, what country are you from?
>
> again, please take all my comments as part of a constructive dialogue,
> no offense meant.
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