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For the time being this seems to be the way to go. Adding an EID in the
username would also allow you to track if you have to revoke a login. I
have passworded the LG I wrote, and will give out a login/pass to
anyone who can demonstrate they are a member of the peering network.<br>
<br>
Scott Wolf<br>
<br>
Jason p wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid3e09024f0410290706267737f8@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">any plans to put a password on the maps or some type of verification
so that only members can see the data ? the maps make i easy to look
at the network and see where you fit our could fit into the network.
Jason
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:38:43 +0200, Stastny Richard
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richard.stastny@oefeg.at"><richard.stastny@oefeg.at></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Mark:
When I made my talk about DUNDi at VON, I was approached
after my talk by
the CEO of Vonage who waited in line in order to tell me he
would *never*
use this system (or ENUM) or anything which allowed any ability for
someone to determine who his customers were, no matter how
circuitous (I
told him I could make a web site that would pay $2 for anyone
that was a
vonage customer but he didn't seem to consider that a likely one).
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">DUNDi is playing in the same ballpark then _Carrier_ ENUM (to be
precise: Carrier ENUM shared within a (trust) con-federation).
So luckily the CEO from Vonage (as any provider) has no say
if his customers opts-in into (_user_) ENUM. The basic question
here is: will Vonage (and other already doomed bellhead PSTN-emulation
_VoIP_ providers) offer their customers real VoIP by providing them with
_dial_ URI aka public sip URIs. This also implies two things: anybody
can call this sip address (this is equivalent that you can send an
e-mail to every mailto: without your e-mail server having a bilateral
peering agreement with the receiving e-mail server) and second:
there will be NO termination charges.
Public ENUM is just an optional add-on to give you the sip URI related
to an E.164 number. If you would know the sip URI in the first place,
you do not need ENUM. The basic question in ENUM is: Do you have a
public
sip URI? If not, you cannot use ENUM. Period.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Greg:
As for the CEO of Vonage, when BGP was first introduced certain people
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">in
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the industry freaked out over the same issues, but everyone got over it
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">eventually.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Carrier ENUM and DUNDi allows you to peer the addresses of ingress
gateways
to your "network". Therefor you may have peering agreement and also you
MAY have termination charges (if in the peering (or settlement)
agreement)
The drawback is that you have to annonce at least the number range you
are serving or in case of a number range featuring NP every single
number
you serve. Most carriers (especially new entrants) do no like to annonce
this for two reasons: 1. competiters may make a head count and find
out (what they in most cases know anyhow) that there is a difference
between reality and propaganda, and second that competititors
(especially
the evil incumbents may use the information for direct marketing. The
reverse is easy for the new-entrants, because the just can make direct
marketing to anybody, the chance to hit an own customer is minimal.
So I can add to Greg: this is the reason why in many countries no
centralized database exists for NP.
On the other hand: if you want to peer on the Internet, there is finally
no other way to use constructs like Carrier ENUM or DUNDi. The other
alternative is to keep the PSTN up and running forever just as transit
and interconnect facility even of no end-user are connected anymore.
Richard
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Spencer [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:markster@digium.com">mailto:markster@digium.com</a>]
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 7:06 AM
To: Distributed Universal Number Discovery
Subject: RE: [Dundi] Looking Glass
This is an extremely slippery slope.
The most important things DUNDi/e164 can do are to preserve
the integrity
and the privacy of the members participating. When you
publically make
available information outside of the trust group, you are
weakening the
privacy of the members within the group.
The question is whether the existing language provides sufficient
protections.
Section 2f was explicitly created to prevent the dissimination of the
routes or any portion of them outside the trust group.
If the language in 2f is not strong enough to make that
protection, we may
need to revise it and publish a new revision of the GPA, but
upgrading the
GPA is not an easy task -- everyone would have to re-execute the new
version, effective a common time, at which point people who were only
running the old one would have to be cut off. Obviously this
is a fairly
impractical scenario -- but much more practical right now
since we have
only a few tens of nodes.
When I made my talk about DUNDi at VON, I was approached
after my talk by
the CEO of Vonage who waited in line in order to tell me he
would *never*
use this system (or ENUM) or anything which allowed any ability for
someone to determine who his customers were, no matter how
circuitous (I
told him I could make a web site that would pay $2 for anyone
that was a
vonage customer but he didn't seem to consider that a likely one).
DUNDi/e164 has both a technical and non-technical portion.
There is a lot
of debate about the scalability of either. The scalability of the
technical side is rather easily measurable, and there is a path to
improving it (I should have the push stuff done before too
long). The
non-technical piece can only be scalable if it is enforced
100%, right
from the start, and any infraction is immediately attacked.
If violations
become widespread, then truly, it will become worthless at large.
I cannot stress the importance of maintaining accuracy and privacy of
these numbers within the Trust Group and no amount of fancy
diagnostic
tools are worth that risk.
Mark
On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Brian West wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Ok I think the new LG is more of what we need. It doesn't
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">display any
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">identifying info about the route and I think that still follows the
spirit of the GPA... What about you?
bkw
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dundi-bounces@lists.digium.com">dundi-bounces@lists.digium.com</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:dundi">mailto:dundi</a>-
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bounces@lists.digium.com">bounces@lists.digium.com</a>] On Behalf Of Scott Wolf
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:34 PM
To: Distributed Universal Number Discovery
Subject: Re: [Dundi] Looking Glass
I am now filtering out all user/pass's, EID's, and IP/Host's.
Basically just if a route exists, and cache info. EID
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">lookup is also
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">disabled.
Would a click through of the GPA be enough to allow full access?
Scott Wolf
wolfson
Martin List-Petersen wrote:
Yes/No is a bit too little. You might want to know, if
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">a old entry
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">is being
pushed or not. So masking the output to a certain
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">degree probably is
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the best
solution.
/Marlow
Quoting Brian West <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:brian@bkw.org"><brian@bkw.org></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:brian@bkw.org"><mailto:brian@bkw.org></a> :
I think the tool is acceptable if any info
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">about where or
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">who
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the number
goes is masked. I think the best response is
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">to say YES we see it
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">or NO we
don't and the weight of the result if any. It will also
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">help
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">try to see if
the rest of the network sees you from X or Y
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">perspective. What does
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> everyone else think?
bkw
-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dundi-bounces@lists.digium.com">dundi-bounces@lists.digium.com</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:dundi">mailto:dundi</a>-
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bounces@lists.digium.com">bounces@lists.digium.com</a>] On Behalf Of
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Mark Spencer
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 9:43 PM
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dundi@lists.digium.com">dundi@lists.digium.com</a>
Subject: Re: [Dundi] Looking Glass
The DUNDi Looking Glass, while neat, is also in
violation of GPA section
2f:
(f) A Participant may not disclose
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">any specific Route,
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Service or
Participant contact
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">information obtained
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">from
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the Peering System
to any party outside of the
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Peering System except as a
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> by-product of facilitating
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">communication in
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">accordance with
section 2e (e.g., phone books or other
databases may not be
published, but the Internet
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">addresses of
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Egress Gateway or
Service does not need to be
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">obfuscated.)
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> I would like to solicit feedback from
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">the list about
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">how
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">this tool might
be more appropriately used.
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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</pre>
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