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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Please also have a look at the gateway
boxes from berofix (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.beronet.com/index.php/Main_Page">http://wiki.beronet.com/index.php/Main_Page</a>).
I am not affiliated but have used different products from them
over last few yeas and all have survived and are stable.<br>
<br>
Documentation is open and free on their wiki. They provide
updates. They are not the cheapest but they have different vendors
and they are sold in online webshops. You can choose for the
inside PCI(e) cards or their external boxes. Last few years I went
for the external boxes. They can be fitted in a server rack or you
mount them against the wall with screws. <br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Michel.<br>
<br>
On 16-06-13 16:55, Nunya Biznatch wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:51BDD1F2.7000000@ihearbanjos.com" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
Thanks again to everyone that's responded thus far. I have once
again bundled the questions and answers into a single email, and
am responding below.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/14/2013 9:43 AM, Nunya Biznatch
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:51BB3A21.9000903@ihearbanjos.com"
type="cite">Howdy All, <br>
They say opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one.
(that's the "clean" version of the saying). So I'm asking for
yours. I hope you see it as a fun exercise. <br>
<br>
I'm designing a phone system from the ground up. Will be about
1000-1300 seats mixed 80/20 VoIP/Analog. 58-acre campus
environment with 23 buildings. Userbase is emergency services
organization, 24/7/365 operation. Down time is not an option,
but "blips" are acceptable. Repair time is immediate. We need
failover for the failover essentially. However, money is a major
factor, so I have to do it all for nothing. So here's what I'm
thinking. Please throw in your 2 cents. <br>
<br>
Network will be separate for phones. Fiber infrastructure
available between buildings as well as copper. Internet access
will be limited to a single administrative console on a
temporary basis, and then only when remote 3rd party support is
required. Access for 3rd party support will be supervised
through remote access tools such as VNC, GoToMeeting, etc...
etc... System will have zero access to local data network. This
means all ancillary support servers such as DHCP, DNS, NTP, FTP,
etc...etc... will be specific to the phone system. Yes, I know
some responders at this time will become fixated on me gaining
this connectivity. It ain't gonna happen. It's not an option.
Period, end of story. These are the parameters I must work
within. Trying to "fix" that will be a non-starter. <br>
<br>
The phone system will upgrade an existing TDM-based system.
Mitel SX2000 with NuPoint Voicemail. This will not be a
dump-trunk replacement. I expect at least a one to two-year
transition, meaning we will have time to find problems, work
bugs, and learn over time, with minimized impacts. It also means
we'll be supporting two systems for some time. <br>
<br>
PBX is 97% serving your basic phone on the desk. Nothing
special. Customers expect the usual list of features. There will
be a goodly number of hints required for BLF on maybe 150
phones. There is one office of about 30 phones in a call-center
environment that will need that service. They would be
considered low volume (but don't tell them that). <br>
<br>
My Skills... I am not a Linux kung fu master, but I have built
and managed my share of Linux servers on mutiple Linux flavors.
I am a DCAA, having been through formal training, and have been
playing with Asterisk for years, but always in fits and spurts
and never in a live environment so I am by no means a kung fu
master there either. I have started dabbling with
virtualizations via XEN, but I am not comfortable enough with it
to go live this first round. I can see myself implementing it in
about three years once we're totally comfortable with what we
have, so I can then have time to get that skill sorted. I was a
network engineer for the US no3. telecom for a number of years,
10-years in comm-electronics in the military before that.
Telecom my entire career. I've got the kung-fu to handle the
network side of the house, and having administrated multiple
PBXs for decade-plus, I've got the concepts down. <br>
<br>
No plans to build databases for things like directories, etc...
I'm not greatly confident in those skills, and to date, haven't
found anything that really stands out that would make me require
that. You may think otherwise, so please chime in. I say that,
but at the same time I recognize I may require a GUI interface
once fully deployed to allow lower-skilled people to follow the
motions to complete simple moves, adds, and changes. I'm
fighting the uphill battle that is the "GUI is new, CLI is old"
mentality. <br>
<br>
System will use G.722 for VoIP Phones. <br>
<br>
So there's the groundwork. Here's the hardware plan. <br>
<br>
Plan is to build my own servers following industry standards
(ATX) and using industry standard equipment. Why? Spares?
Whether redundant or not, I will still have spares for the most
common elements on the shelf so equipment can be returned to
service as quickly as possible. This will also allow me to be
comfortable with more "basic server" configurations and help
keep cost down. For example, Servers with single power supplies
vs. dual. Also, components will be standardized for all
equipment to aid in supply requirements. <br>
<br>
First the layout. <br>
<br>
2-servers acting as gateways. Each handling 2 PRIs for outside
trunks. They'll also handle the analog ports. Failover will be
in the form of degraded trunk access if one should fail, but the
second will be able to support services in degraded fashion. <br>
<br>
2-servers acting as VoIP PBX. A primary and a spare. Meaning one
will be capable of handling the load of the entire system, and
the other will pickup when the other dies, an active/passive
cluster. Will also take care of voicemail. Use of heartbeat,
pacemaker, etc... etc... <br>
<br>
2-servers for support services. DNS, DHCP, FTP, NTP, etc...
etc...Basically, everything the phones need to run plus system
monitoring via something like Nagios. <br>
<br>
1-Desktop for administration of everything. Provided from
corporate. Basic Desktop. <br>
<br>
Looking at Intel Xeon E3-1230 ivy-bridge processors. 8GB DDR
1333 for Gateways and 16GB for PBX and support servers. 1TB
drives in RAID 10 via LSI 3ware 9650 cards for PBX, 250GB for
Gateways. Supermicro X9SCM-F mobo. <br>
<br>
OS of choice is Debian. Primarily because it appears to have the
best availability for non-Internet installations. <br>
<br>
<br>
Now the Infrastructure <br>
<br>
<br>
2-network switches in the phone room. Each set of "primary"
servers to one, and "secondary" servers to the other, and each
switch connected to the other. Each switch will have a different
path to the network. RTSP implemented for dual path to the
campus. Only one location on campus will have or require dual
paths to the network. <br>
<br>
Most buildings on campus have cat-3 for voice installed in the
mid-90s. Wired at the same time as the data network, I can
generally conclude they're the same length. It's terminated to
110-blocks on walls. Some cabling is only 2-pair. I know I will
find surprises. Essentially, I plan to re-use this cable,
knowing in some circumstances I will need to make special patch
cables. These connections will be forced to 10BaseT at the
switch. <br>
<br>
I require PoE to the wire closets, no power sourced at the
desktop. I require a minimum eight-hours emergency power which
will be in the form of UPS in most cases. Why so much backup?
Well if you ask, we can start a new discussion about NEBS
compliance, E911 Federal, local, and state requirements, etc...
etc... <br>
<br>
So why not use existing data network? The current data network
consists primarily of 10+ year-old 100BaseT switches, no PoE.
Barely any backup power. I don't believe they're using QoS. The
network office is a separate department from the phone office. I
question their skills, and above all, network folks treat phones
like computers, not like multi-million dollar lawsuits when they
don't work in an emergency. We could make another thread out of
this huh? To use existing data network would require hundreds of
thousands in Cisco 6500 and 4500 series switches. Network has
already stated they'd want phone on separate ports from
computer, and I agree. (Yet another thread). Thousands of
computers across 23 buildings, and it must be Cisco by corporate
policy, where phone is a different animal that doesn't have this
limitation. You can see we're talking hundreds of thousands in
just switching gear. Then UPS requirements to support a big hog
of a switch vs a teeny 48-porter w/PoE, and you just cranked up
one-time and long term cost for that as well. Trying to replace
the network to support the phones is cost prohibitive and a
non-starter. Maybe we can talk about it in 5 years once they've
replaced everything. <br>
<br>
I plan to purchase lower-cost Layer-2 smart switches from
vendors such as DLink, Xyxel, Dell, etc... Many players in the
market for 48-port switches with PoE and multiple SFP. <br>
<br>
I think that's probably enough... I apologize for the large
email but I couldn't think of a better way to get a qualified
peer opinion without laying out the facts. <br>
<br>
Thanks in advance for your review and consideration...!!! <br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p><b>Michelle Wrote</b><br>
"For redundant/failover of Asterisk checkout HAAST at <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.generationd.com">www.generationd.com</a>
The HAAST product sits between Linux and Asterisk, monitors for
failures etc, and then fails over to another Asterisk box. It
effectively creates a low-cost cluster, moving IP's etc to
active peer. It runs with most Linux and Asterisk distro's, and
avoids the issues of single point of failure. etc."</p>
<p><b>Then Carlos Wrote</b><br>
"Interesting product that I was very interested in, but the
licensing has one huge glaring problem. Be sure to read the FAQ
carefully. If your hardware fails and you replace almost
anything in the machine, you have to pay for the product again."</p>
<p><b>Then Chris Wrote</b><br>
"Not to mention that installing Pacemaker/Heartbeat/Corosync or
your other HA solution of preference isn't particularly
difficult, and is agreeably free. "</p>
<p><b>Answer to All - </b>Michelle, I sincerely appreciate the
response. However, I tend to lean toward what Chris is saying
usually because I'll try the low cost option first if it appears
viable. I do that in-part, because of the little "Gotchas"
commercial software tends to have such as the one Carlos
mentioned. I've looked at the product before, but not closely
since I knew there was something out there for essentially free
that may do the job. If I get into it and down the road
determine I need something more or more refined, I would look at
commercial options.</p>
<p><br>
<b>Phillip Wrote</b><br>
"Have you given thought about how users are to access their
voicemail, change their forwarding and look into the
called/received list of calls status? For all these things you
are likely to need a web interface, which means your phone
network will need to have at least a defined bridge between the
data network and the phone network."</p>
<p><b>Answer - </b>Yes. It's all going to be accomplished at the
phone, just as they are currently accustomed to. No UC can even
be considered. Even our current voicemail supports fax and
voicemail to email, but we can't use it due to the separation of
data network from phone. I hope in the future, once this system
is deployed and running smooth, I can look toward convincing the
network folks a little pipe between the two isn't going to hurt.
This is one of the things that excites me about Asterisk. It
seems like you could add a new feature every six months for the
next ten years. Unlike today where you get what you get, then
you don't throw a fit. ...and pay for it.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
<b>Phillip Wrote<br>
</b>"And then you will need to give a lot of thought about how
to do the provisioning. What phone type/model are you planning
to employ?"</p>
<p wrap=""><b>Answer - </b>I'm leaning toward Polycom Soundpoint.
They have the most complete range of products and accessories
available. I've tested an Aastra 57i, Cisco 7962, Mitel 5320,
and a number of the Polycoms. Every single phone has their
limitations. I've got to give credit to Mitel here. They have
the absolute best phones I've run into thus far, and accessories
such as cordless handsets that nobody else has considered.
However, they're a closed product, with no support for plugging
into a non-Mitel switch, and they want to charge for licensing
and firmware. Bummer. I've considered the Digium products, and
they look very solid, but I need sidecars. Aastra 57i I really
like, but they use that non-wideband, wideband instead of true
G.722. I think I could live with that, but their handset sounded
like I was talking in a tunnel. Cisco makes a nice phone, and
would trick the users into thinking they're driving a Cadillac
when the reality is it's nothing but a glitzed-out Chevy, but
the Cisco's require extra work up-front to convert them to SIP
that I'd just as soon avoid, and to be legal I need to buy a
SmartNet contract for each phone similar to Mitel. I have to
submit to public bid my specifications, then let the market sort
out what vendor I'm left with, but I have my favorites. I would
like to support any phone a customer wants, but that would be an
insane nightmare to manage. In any case, the evil plan is to use
the servers providing all the ancillary services as my phone
servers as well, storing the configs, etc...<br>
</p>
<p wrap=""><br>
<b>Phillip Wrote<br>
</b>"Keeping the gateway machine speparated from the PBX is a
very good decision: If you intend to used PCI(e) cards then you
will once in a while get into driver issues hell, and there are
might be older Asterisk version that work well with the drivers,
yet your PBX Asterisk requires for whatever reasons a newer
Asterisk version."</p>
<p wrap=""><b>Answer - </b>Call it crotchety old phone guy that
makes me want to have trunks separate from PBX. If you're
gunnin' for 5-9's, you're not gonna get it if you have to kill
the entire switch every time you want to work on the trunks.
Thanks for the validation. Thanks for the heads up on the cards.
My plan is to get a solid system, then leave upgrades to
something like every couple years unless it's critical security.
I say that, but I know the geek-side of me wants to have the
newest, biggest, baddest, fastest driver I can dump onto it.
It's a bad habit to get into. Three years between upgrades seems
to be a fairly accepted practice in the phone world.<br>
</p>
<p wrap=""><br>
<b>Phillip Wrote<br>
</b>"Personally I would look very closly at Patton gateways,
though, PCI cards I cannot really recommend do the never-ending
driver quests, version issues and other OS dependencies."<br>
<br>
<b>Answer - </b>Thanks for the recommendation. I've used Patton
products in the past and have been happy. However, I look, and
man they seem to be pricey. Competitive to the other appliances
I've looked at, but more costly than what I'm looking at doing
short-term. I may find myself looking to make life easier in the
future by replacing a couple server boxes with appliances, but
in the short-term, I've got to keep it as low cost as possible
since it will be a big purchase. I know I'm trading labor for
cost, but where I work, my labor is "free".<br>
<br>
<br>
<b>Daniel Wrote</b><br>
"If you do it correctly (g722 as primary codec and fallback to
g711) and only accept g711 on the pri machines it costs you next
to nothing. You can't buy a new machine to slow for the job of
filling those channels by just bridging. But like others noted,
you should really look into some device to handle that for you.
My choice of hardware is Patton SmartNodes. They aren't cheap
but in the past 8 years I have only seen 1 die (bad PSU)."<br>
<br>
<b>Answer - </b>Thanks for the second response. If you see some
glaring ignorance in my email please let me know. I've not been
able to try this out in real life, so maybe you're seeing
something I'm missing. Yup, those gateway boxes will have no
other job than to accept analog from analog phones, or G.711
from the PRI, then convert it all to G.722, then push it up to
the PBX. My assumption, and maybe where I'm messing up, is the
PBX would merely passthru at that point unless it was voicemail.
Does that sound right? Essentially, I'm transferring the job of
transcoding to the gateway boxes, and leaving the PBX and
voicemail work to the PBX. <br>
</p>
<p wrap=""><br>
<b>Daniel Wrote<br>
</b>"You didn't mention it yet, but will there be recordings of
calls? Monitoring calls will keep the PBX in the loop. And I
have been stung by bad controllers resulting in bad performance
(HP cciss comes to mind with Debian/squeeze)."</p>
<p><b>Answer - </b>No regular recording. Case by case basis only,
then only one or two. ...and you just touched on one of my
concerns as well. I've built my large share of servers and
desktops, and I know how you can always do your best, but you'll
never truly know how all the parts work together until you plug
it all in. Heck, as you noted, you can't even trust commercial
products completely. I would much prefer to test the waters by
purchasing and building one of these machines, then let it run
in a live environment for six months while I throw everything I
can at it, but the office thinks I need to just get the thing
done. So I'm banking on the fact that if I screw up the
combination, it's going to be one particular part that I can
easily replace for relatively little money.</p>
<br>
Sincere Thanks once again to everyone who has responded. It's been
a great help.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51BB3A21.9000903@ihearbanjos.com"
type="cite"> <br>
<br>
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