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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Even in India, you can use VOIP for overseas calls
coming from your own company.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You just can't sell services that allow people to
call a PSTN number and then have their call sent over VOIP to another
location.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR>-- <BR>Steven</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.glimasoutheast.org">http://www.glimasoutheast.org</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Alex Robar" <<A
href="mailto:alex.robar@gmail.com">alex.robar@gmail.com</A>> wrote in
message <A
href="news:9ffdc7570609081054m7832025dg5c2a9c1c35c14792@mail.gmail.com">news:9ffdc7570609081054m7832025dg5c2a9c1c35c14792@mail.gmail.com</A>...</DIV>The
biggest problem with your argument is that VoIP is not illegal anywhere. Voice
over _internet_ is, but voice over the Internet protocol is not. Anyone in
China is free to setup Asterisk to use within their offices. There's nothing
illegal about it. It's using VoIP, but it's not transmitting it outside of
your office. It's the calls that leave your office that matter... They're the
ones that governments can tax. <BR><BR>...And if what Mark Spencer is doing
isn't illegal, your post it most certainly OT... And definitely flame bait.
Why troll about the US? There's US hating forums in a lot of places, go post
your rants there.<BR><BR>Alex<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 9/8/06, <B class=gmail_sendername>Dean
Collins</B> <<A
href="mailto:Dean@collins.net.pr">Dean@collins.net.pr</A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Yes
I am aware he is the second executive to be arrested......the first<BR>is
still yet to be charged and is still awaiting trial and has fallen<BR>off
the face of the general media which is why I'm 'motivated' to
draw<BR>attention and outrage to this second case.<BR><BR>Yes you are right
it does belong off this list but with so many people<BR>on this list doing
international business on the internet (including<BR>yourself by the looks
of your own voip carrier website). <BR><BR>So when someone from China places
an order on your website for a voip<BR>service, you agree that it would be
ok for the Chinese government to let<BR>the Chinese customer go free but for
them to arrest you and any other <BR>directors muWare?<BR><BR>(also lets not
forget that the WTO has already ruled that USA government<BR>is in breach
with their court case back in March).<BR><BR>I'm very curious about your
thoughts or will you prefer to stick your <BR>head in the sand and pretend
that the USA lives in a bubble on the<BR>planet earth and would prefer that
Walmart not do business<BR>internationally or that the Ford motor car you
drive not use Australian<BR>steel etc etc.
<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Cheers,<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>> From: <A
href="mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com">asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com</A>
[mailto:<A href="mailto:asterisk-users-"> asterisk-users-</A><BR>> <A
href="mailto:bounces@lists.digium.com">bounces@lists.digium.com</A>] On
Behalf Of Jay Milk<BR>> Sent: Friday, 8 September 2006 1:22 PM<BR>>
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion <BR>>
Subject: Re: {Fraud?} RE: [asterisk-users] FW: Peter Dicks
Chairman<BR>ofSportingbet<BR>> PLC isarrested at JFK!!<BR>><BR>>
Why don't you keep political diatribe to your blog? This is OT, and<BR>>
quite frankly it displays that you have less than perfect grasp on
<BR>reality.<BR>> Mark Spencer makes a software product that is perfectly
legal to use<BR>> anywhere in the world, even in India (as long as it
stays within a<BR>> building and used as a PBX only). It's the user's
responsibility to <BR>> understand and follow local law in utilizing this
software. By the<BR>same<BR>> token, a vehicle is legal to use for most,
but it becomes a weapon<BR>when<BR>> you intentionally or neglectfully
run someone over. <BR>> Peter Dicks was operating a business that was
offering certain<BR>services<BR>> that are illegal in the place where he
offered them. If he was<BR>arrested<BR>> the moment he entered the US,
then this was investigated before, and <BR>he<BR>> was asked to cease
offering these illegal services in the US, but has<BR>> refused to do so
-- if you followed the news as enthusiastically as<BR>you<BR>> post OT
messages, then you would have realized that Dicks was the <BR>> *second*
executive that was arrested. This should have come as no<BR>> surprise to
Dicks or his lawyers.<BR>> So, now we're seeing the guy not as a clueless
tourist, but a<BR>> law-defying visitor. He's done something that is
illegal, has refused <BR>to<BR>> stop, and was dumb enough to step into
the jurisdiction of his crime.<BR>Is<BR>> there a problem with that?
Because if there is, you need to start<BR>> defending Columbian
drug-lords and terrorists, too. <BR>> This is fulfills my quote of OT
posts for the day. Just had to say<BR>> something in the face of such
obvious stupidity.<BR>><BR>> Dean Collins wrote:<BR>> ><BR>>
> Exactly so why aren't they trying to arrest the 50 million people in
<BR>> > the USA who have gambled online?<BR>> ><BR>> >
Mark (as far as I know) isn't actively checking with asterisk users<BR>>
> for what country they are in so therefore in the reciprocal eyes of
<BR>> > the indian government he is similarly breaking the
law.<BR>> ><BR>> > Basically what the USA government is charging
Peter Dicks with is<BR>not<BR>> > being a global policeman to enforce
a USA law (which the WTO has <BR>> > already ruled is illegal back in
March<BR>> > <A
href="http://www.internetnews.com/ec-news/article.php/3434111">http://www.internetnews.com/ec-news/article.php/3434111</A>
).<BR>> ><BR>> > The USA government can't enforce it's
principals on the rest of the <BR>> > world otherwise they are no
better than the terrorists who are<BR>trying<BR>> > to impose Sharia
Law on the world.<BR>> ><BR>> > I'm trying terribly not to take
this discussion any further Off <BR>Topic<BR>> > but realistically we
live in a global society and the USA is<BR>> > overstepping it's
limits on international trade here. I appreciate<BR>> > this isn't the
best forum for it but this has much wider <BR>ramifications<BR>> > for
those of us who do business internationally in and with the USA.<BR>>
><BR>> > Cheers,<BR>> ><BR>> > Dean<BR>>
><BR>>
><BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------
<BR>> ><BR>> > *From:* <A
href="mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com">asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com</A><BR>>
> [mailto:<A
href="mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com">asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com
</A>] *On Behalf Of *Alex<BR>Robar<BR>> > *Sent:* Friday, 8 September
2006 12:45 PM<BR>> > *To:* Asterisk Users Mailing List -
Non-Commercial Discussion<BR>> > *Subject:* Re: [asterisk-users] FW:
Peter Dicks Chairman of <BR>> > Sportingbet PLC isarrested at
JFK!!<BR>> ><BR>> > The guy was arrested because he was
conciously allowing US citizens<BR>to<BR>> > gamble online, something
illegal in the US at this point. He ran a <BR>> > business who's sole
profit source came from this illegal activity.<BR>> > Spencer is an
entirely different situation. He's not running a<BR>> > business in
which he provides VoIP to places where it is illegal. <BR>He's<BR>> >
running a business the develops software that enables
VoIP...<BR>There's<BR>> > a big difference there. If someone takes the
software and uses it in<BR>a<BR>> > place where VoIP is illegal, that
does not make Spencer responsible. <BR>> > Think of it along the lines
of BitTorrent software. The software<BR>isn't<BR>> > illegal - it has
valid uses - but it _could_ be used for something<BR>> > illegal. All
that means is that the user of the software has <BR>commited<BR>> > a
crime; Not the developer.<BR>> ><BR>> > Alex<BR>>
><BR>>
><BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
><BR>> > *From:* Dean Collins <BR>>
> *Sent:* Friday, 8 September 2006 10:22
AM<BR>> > *To:* 'Asterisk Users Mailing List -
Non-Commercial Discussion'<BR>> > *Subject:*
FW: Peter Dicks Chairman of Sportingbet PLC is<BR>arrested <BR>>
> at JFK!!<BR>> ><BR>>
> I'm sending this to the asterisk list -
consciously knowing it<BR>> > will piss some
people off but this is the *most important<BR>business<BR>>
> issue of the day* for anyone doing business in
or with a US <BR>company.<BR>> ><BR>> >
Oh and before anyone on this list thinks of calling this OT -<BR>how<BR>>
> about Mark Spencer being arrested while
travelling in a country<BR>> > like India or
the Middle East that has banned VOIP services <BR>(which<BR>>
> is still illegal because they cant tax it of
course).<BR>> ><BR>> > I don't know what
you are going to be able to do with this<BR>>
> information but this has to be discussed as it
affect the future <BR>> > of international
commerce when dealing with the USA.<BR>> ><BR>>
> Best intentions,<BR>> ><BR>>
> Dean<BR>> ><BR>>
><BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------
<BR>> ><BR>> > *From:* Dean
Collins<BR>> > *Sent:* Friday, 8 September
2006 10:15 AM<BR>> > *Subject:* Peter Dicks
Chairman of Sportingbet PLC is arrested<BR>at<BR>>
> JFK!!<BR>> ><BR>>
> This is bullshit.<BR>> ><BR>>
> I don't know how to effectively express my
outrage over this<BR>> > action by the US
government.<BR>> ><BR>> > Check out
these links for background info; <BR>> ><BR>>
> <A
href="http://www.nytimes.com">www.nytimes.com</A><BR>>
><BR>><BR><<A
href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/08/technology/08gamble.html?_r=1&oref=sl">http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/08/technology/08gamble.html?_r=1&oref=sl
</A><BR>ogin<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >
<A href="http://money.cnn.com">money.cnn.com</A><BR>>
><BR>><BR><<A
href="http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/08/news/international/bc.leisure.sportingb">http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/08/news/international/bc.leisure.sportingb
</A><BR>et.reut/?p<BR>> ostversion=2006090808><BR>> ><BR>>
> <A
href="http://today.reuters.co.uk">today.reuters.co.uk</A><BR>>
><BR>><BR><<A
href="http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=internetNews&stor">
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=internetNews&stor</A><BR>yID=200<BR>>
6-09-07T160138Z_01_N07242747_RTRIDST_0_OUKIN-UK-LEISURE-<BR>>
SPORTINGBET-DICKS.XML><BR>> ><BR>> >
<A href="http://www.businessweek.com">www.businessweek.com</A><BR>>
><BR>><BR><<A
href="http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8K02SM85.htm?sub=apn_euro">http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8K02SM85.htm?sub=apn_euro</A><BR>>
_up&chan=gb> <BR>> ><BR>> > So
basically we have a UK citizen, operating a UK business<BR>>
> (<A
href="http://sportingbetplc.com">sportingbetplc.com</A> board)<BR>>
><BR>><BR><<A
href="http://www.sportingbetplc.com/pages/15/Our+Board.stm?PHPSESSID=15ba3131">
http://www.sportingbetplc.com/pages/15/Our+Board.stm?PHPSESSID=15ba3131</A><BR>>
b6035fc855dabdde5c19b246><BR>> > who the
moment he steps foot into the USA is arrested, not for<BR>>
> crimes he committed but for crimes committted
by US citizens. <BR>> ><BR>> > Oh and
arrested under ambiguous Louisiana law, that defines all<BR>>
> interstate gaming as illegal.<BR>>
><BR>> > I cant wait for the chairman of
the NY Times to be arrested on a <BR>> > visit
to China because chinese citizens were reading copies of<BR>the<BR>>
> NY Times on the internet.<BR>> ><BR>>
> Oh and as for visiting 'unfriendly' countries,
how about if<BR>Castro<BR>> > started shooting
american tourists he found in Cuba for 'crimes<BR>of<BR>>
> treason' in carrying US dollars in their
wallets?<BR>> ><BR>> > This is insane
America. When are you going to wake up and begin <BR>to<BR>>
> be a good 'world citizen'?<BR>> ><BR>>
> You cant just arrest people for 'crimes against
the state' that<BR>> > dont even occur in your
country........isn't that what<BR>terrorists <BR>>
> do? Impose their will against the world at
large.<BR>> ><BR>> > I keep hoping I
will wake up and the insanity will end? it's<BR>like<BR>>
> a bad dream.<BR>>
> It's getting hard to tell who is the bad guys
anymore. <BR>> ><BR>> ><BR><A
href="http://deancollinsblog.blogspot.com/2006/09/peter-dicks-chairman-of-">http://deancollinsblog.blogspot.com/2006/09/peter-dicks-chairman-of-</A><BR>>
sportingbet.html<BR>> ><BR>>
><BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
><BR>> > _______________________________________________<BR>>
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clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Alex Robar<BR><A
href="mailto:alex.robar@gmail.com">alex.robar@gmail.com</A>
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