[asterisk-users] I need a second opinion on a new phone system deployment

[Nunya Biznatch]

Thanks to everyone for the responses. I really appreciate it. I'll 
answer all questions and suggestions in this one email. (at the bottom)


On 6/14/2013 9:43 AM, Nunya Biznatch wrote:
> Howdy All,
>    They say opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one. 
> (that's the "clean" version of the saying). So I'm asking for yours. I 
> hope you see it as a fun exercise.
>
> I'm designing a phone system from the ground up. Will be about 
> 1000-1300 seats mixed 80/20 VoIP/Analog. 58-acre campus environment 
> with 23 buildings. Userbase is emergency services organization, 
> 24/7/365 operation. Down time is not an option, but "blips" are 
> acceptable. Repair time is immediate. We need failover for the 
> failover essentially. However, money is a major factor, so I have to 
> do it all for nothing. So here's what I'm thinking. Please throw in 
> your 2 cents.
>
> Network will be separate for phones. Fiber infrastructure available 
> between buildings as well as copper. Internet access will be limited 
> to a single administrative console on a temporary basis, and then only 
> when remote 3rd party support is required. Access for 3rd party 
> support will be supervised through remote access tools such as VNC, 
> GoToMeeting, etc... etc... System will have zero access to local data 
> network. This means all ancillary support servers such as DHCP, DNS, 
> NTP, FTP, etc...etc... will be specific to the phone system. Yes, I 
> know some responders at this time will become fixated on me gaining 
> this connectivity. It ain't gonna happen. It's not an option. Period, 
> end of story. These are the parameters I must work within. Trying to 
> "fix" that will be a non-starter.
>
> The phone system will upgrade an existing TDM-based system. Mitel 
> SX2000 with NuPoint Voicemail. This will not be a dump-trunk 
> replacement. I expect at least a one to two-year transition, meaning 
> we will have time to find problems,  work bugs, and learn over time, 
> with minimized impacts. It also means we'll be supporting two systems 
> for some time.
>
> PBX is 97% serving your basic phone on the desk. Nothing special. 
> Customers expect the usual list of features. There will be a goodly 
> number of hints required for BLF on maybe 150 phones. There is one 
> office of about 30 phones in a call-center environment that will need 
> that service. They would be considered low volume (but don't tell them 
> that).
>
> My Skills... I am not a Linux kung fu master, but I have built and 
> managed my share of Linux servers on mutiple Linux flavors. I am a 
> DCAA, having been through formal training, and have been playing with 
> Asterisk for years, but always in fits and spurts and never in a live 
> environment so I am by no means a kung fu master there either. I have 
> started dabbling with virtualizations via XEN, but I am not 
> comfortable enough with it to go live this first round. I can see 
> myself implementing it in about three years once we're totally 
> comfortable with what we have, so I can then have time to get that 
> skill sorted. I was a network engineer for the US no3. telecom for a 
> number of years, 10-years in comm-electronics in the military before 
> that. Telecom my entire career. I've got the kung-fu to handle the 
> network side of the house, and having administrated multiple PBXs for 
> decade-plus, I've got the concepts down.
>
> No plans to build databases for things like directories, etc... I'm 
> not greatly confident in those skills, and to date, haven't found 
> anything that really stands out that would make me require that. You 
> may think otherwise, so please chime in. I say that, but at the same 
> time I recognize I may require a GUI interface once fully deployed to 
> allow lower-skilled people to follow the motions to complete simple 
> moves, adds, and changes. I'm fighting the uphill battle that is the 
> "GUI is new, CLI is old" mentality.
>
> System will use G.722 for VoIP Phones.
>
> So there's the groundwork. Here's the hardware plan.
>
> Plan is to build my own servers following industry standards (ATX) and 
> using industry standard equipment. Why? Spares? Whether redundant or 
> not, I will still have spares for the most common elements on the 
> shelf so equipment can be returned to service as quickly as possible. 
> This will also allow me to be comfortable with more "basic server" 
> configurations and help keep cost down. For example, Servers with 
> single power supplies vs. dual. Also, components will be standardized 
> for all equipment to aid in supply requirements.
>
> First the layout.
>
> 2-servers acting as gateways. Each handling 2 PRIs for outside trunks. 
> They'll also handle the analog ports. Failover will be in the form of 
> degraded trunk access if one should fail, but the second will be able 
> to support services in degraded fashion.
>
> 2-servers acting as VoIP PBX. A primary and a spare. Meaning one will 
> be capable of handling the load of the entire system, and the other 
> will pickup when the other dies, an active/passive cluster. Will also 
> take care of voicemail. Use of heartbeat, pacemaker, etc... etc...
>
> 2-servers for support services. DNS, DHCP, FTP, NTP, etc... 
> etc...Basically, everything the phones need to run plus system 
> monitoring via something like Nagios.
>
> 1-Desktop for administration of everything. Provided from corporate. 
> Basic Desktop.
>
> Looking at Intel Xeon E3-1230 ivy-bridge processors. 8GB DDR 1333 for 
> Gateways and 16GB for PBX and support servers. 1TB drives in RAID 10 
> via LSI 3ware 9650 cards for PBX, 250GB for Gateways. Supermicro 
> X9SCM-F mobo.
>
> OS of choice is Debian. Primarily because it appears to have the best 
> availability for non-Internet installations.
>
>
> Now the Infrastructure
>
>
> 2-network switches in the phone room. Each set of "primary" servers to 
> one, and "secondary" servers to the other, and each switch connected 
> to the other. Each switch will have a different path to the network. 
> RTSP implemented for dual path to the campus. Only one location on 
> campus will have or require dual paths to the network.
>
> Most buildings on campus have cat-3 for voice installed in the 
> mid-90s. Wired at the same time as the data network, I can generally 
> conclude they're the same length. It's terminated to 110-blocks on 
> walls. Some cabling is only 2-pair. I know I will find surprises. 
> Essentially, I plan to re-use this cable, knowing in some 
> circumstances I will need to make special patch cables. These 
> connections will be forced to 10BaseT at the switch.
>
> I require PoE to the wire closets, no power sourced at the desktop. I 
> require a minimum eight-hours emergency power which will be in the 
> form of UPS in most cases. Why so much backup? Well if you ask, we can 
> start a new discussion about NEBS compliance, E911 Federal, local, and 
> state requirements, etc... etc...
>
> So why not use existing data network? The current data network 
> consists primarily of 10+ year-old 100BaseT switches, no PoE. Barely 
> any backup power. I don't believe they're using QoS. The network 
> office is a separate department from the phone office. I question 
> their skills, and above all, network folks treat phones like 
> computers, not like multi-million dollar lawsuits when they don't work 
> in an emergency. We could make another thread out of this huh? To use 
> existing data network would require hundreds of thousands in Cisco 
> 6500 and 4500 series switches. Network has already stated they'd want 
> phone on separate ports from computer, and I agree. (Yet another 
> thread). Thousands of computers across 23 buildings, and it must be 
> Cisco by corporate policy, where phone is a different animal that 
> doesn't have this limitation. You can see we're talking hundreds of 
> thousands in just switching gear. Then UPS requirements to support a 
> big hog of a switch vs a teeny 48-porter w/PoE, and you just cranked 
> up one-time and long term cost for that as well. Trying to replace the 
> network to support the phones is cost prohibitive and a non-starter. 
> Maybe we can talk about it in 5 years once they've replaced everything.
>
> I plan to purchase lower-cost Layer-2 smart switches from vendors such 
> as DLink, Xyxel, Dell, etc... Many players in the market for 48-port 
> switches with PoE and multiple SFP.
>
> I think that's probably enough... I apologize for the large email but 
> I couldn't think of a better way to get a qualified peer opinion 
> without laying out the facts.
>
> Thanks in advance for your review and consideration...!!!
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
> New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
>               http://www.asterisk.org/hello
>
> asterisk-users mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
>


Daniel Asked:

"So why use g722? Just use your local g711 law and thus avoid the
transcoding impact to/from the PSTN and calls between the voip and analog
users."

Answer - Wideband codec is a requirement. This is a value-added expected 
from the user-base.

Daniel Asked:

"And why would you seperate the PBX and PRI machines? Those few extra
channels don't really matter."

Answer - There's a couple reasons I'm thinking this way, which may be misguided so thanks for making me think about it. First is redundancy. Offloading the PRIs and analog phones from the primary PBX means if there's an issue, I can take one of those PRI boxes down and not affect the PBX, and the other PRI box will continue to provide trunking services. Only the analog lines on that specific PRI box would be impacted. Second, I know I'll be transcoding G.711 to G.722 on those machines, 46 PRI channels, and 48 analog lines. I've been unable to find anything solid that gives me a definitive idea as to how much horsepower I need. I'd rather find out I have too much then decommission one of these servers down the road, than to not have enough and kill the entire system. Where I work, Asterisk is a massive paradigm shift that'll be attacked every time there's a problem from all angles from every vendor and salesman, in addition to the internal Cisco crowd, so it must be rock solid. I didn't think this was the place to take that risk. Finally, is my own ignorance. Both PRI boxes will service the active PBX. I don't have the knowledge to put half the PRI cards in one PBX, the other half in the other, then have the trunks from the inactive PBX serve the active. I know I'll figure it out once I've had the opportunity to get deep into it in a live environment, but there's still the desire to be able to drop the computer that serves the PRI without impacting the PBX.


Steve Wrote:

"http://red-fone.com  <http://red-fone.com/products-new/fonebridge/>  might
  be a good place look and see if other ideas pop up.  They have good
products.  I am not affiliated with them, just a happy user on a couple
of deployments. "

Answer - I'd looked at Redfone previously. My concern with them was cost, functionality, and their website makes them seem a little stand-offish and looking for long-term monies. If I offloaded my PRIs to two dual-PRI foneBridge's (to retain redundancy), I'd still need at least one server for the analog ports. Also, I'd need to purchase a 3rd foneBridge as a cold spare. ...and maybe they have total solutions for all that, but they're not forthcoming via their website. Their website looks as if they're trying every avenue to get me to call them so they can pimp their wares. Limited Documentation, no manuals, nothing. It's all "contact us for more information". I translate this to mean, "We'll sell it to you with high-pressure tactics. Then, once you own it, we're going to sell you a support plan and not talk to you unless you have it." Maybe all of that is completely untrue, but there's no way for me to tell, and I'm not one who's willing to find out. Actions speak louder than words. I understand they need to make money, but their website reflects their style, and they aren't the style I work well with. Oh, and they insist on ssh with root/su privileges. Ain't gonna happen.


Terry Wrote:

"Another
  option instead of 2 servers dedicated as PRI gateways is to use
AudioCodes Mediant 1000 or 2000 gateways.  Either of them will also
failover to a backup proxy if the primary proxy (server) is offline.
Probably much cheaper than the kick ass box you plan to build + PRI
card(s).

I'm not affiliated either, but we do place them in our 911 call 
centers.  They have analog gateways as well for FXO & FXS devices."

Answer - I hadn't seen these guys before. Thanks. Unfortunately, I see 
them doing the same thing as RedFone. They appear to have the 
information, but require me have an account and login to get to it. I 
don't want to find myself beholden to any hardware vendor. I went to 
register for access, but they want a specific business relationship 
noted. This is a red-flag for me. We're already in a relationship with 
Mitel where we can't get anything done without going through local 
support Mitel mandates to us as part of the service contract. There is 
only one company in the area that is a Mitel service provider, and they 
are less than worthless. As far as cost, I'm trying to see the numbers, 
but I'm not having much luck making them fit since there's nowhere I can 
find at quick guide that will let me build what I need. The server I 
plan to build is around $1600. That includes RAID 10 with battery backup 
on RAID, 8GB ECC memory. E3-1230 processor. All brand name stuff and 
motherboard recommended. Add a single dual-span digium card (not 
promoting, just example) with echocancelling, and I'm looking at around 
$2900. Closest replacement to that I can find in AudioCodes is the 
M600/2 span. Looks like it's hovering at around $3500. Yes there are 
many more moving parts in the server, and there is the entire unknown 
about piecing together a system that makes me uncomfortable, but spares 
are pennies that can be spread across all servers vs. a cold spare for 
the M600 and I'd still need spares for the PBX.



Thanks again to everyone. It's making me think and work through the 
issues and concerns, which is what I needed.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20130615/e767980e/attachment-0001.htm>