[Asterisk-Users] Re: Are there online forums instead of this

[Walt Reed]

First, trim your posts. Why include extra copies of the footer? Does it
help this discussion? 

On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 02:17:52AM -0500, Tim Bass said:
> 
> I'm saying that as a long as long as Digium supports this "dinosaur
> technology in support of their community"  "that" is exactly what the
> community will have, and nothing better, because "this" is the Digium
> supported community.

The term "better" depends on your technical expertise and point of view.
I know how to use my email client. The interface I have is better than
any web forum software on the planet, and don't get "mouse finger
strain" using it. Of course if you insist on using a brain-dead mail
client (outlook comes to mind) you may find it frustrating. That's your
fault - not protocol's.

>    It is really obvious to an unemotional objective
> user who has reviewed the archives, the search function,

Google works fine. Knowing how to use it is important though. If you
won't learn how to use the tools, you won't be able to use them
effectivly. 

> and has observed
> the "disorganized, helter-skelter, all over the map" discussions

Again, use a proper threaded mail client and topics are simple to
browse.

 (ok, I
> guess,  if you have lots of free time on your hands), poor text formatting
> messages (i.e. no way to indent code, code fragments, highlight, etc.) -

Tab key must be broken on your computer??? Maybe your editor sucks?
That's why messages look bad. Frankly, I don't want to spend all my time
formatting a message. Formatting is eye-candy and has little real value.

> this "helter-skelter community" has a solid a one-hour "post-to-message" lag
> time for recent subscribers and traffic-volume that is not possible to
> moderate to enforce simple social rules and professional conduct.

Those are hardware / bandwidth / list-maintainer problems. Not the
protocol's. Performance is an easy fix. A web interface would
have MUCH MUCH higher CPU / bandwidth needs. The software can also be
configured to reject HTML messages, attachments, and any message
containing multiple copies of the footer (which it should). A moderator
can ban distruptive users as well.
 
> For example, vBulletin's (www.vbulletin.com/forum) entire business ecosystem
> is supported by very a very large community of very talented users and
> developers.   Some of the top developers also support parallel ecosystems
> such as www.vbulletin.org/forum where customization is distinct from core
> services and basic user support.

I find the sofware highly annoying - only using 1/4 my browser window
width being the least annoying issue. The thread view only holds 7
messages before you have to scroll and is not proportional to the
browser height. I could probably go on for pages on the annoying
characteristics of that software, but the bottom line is that you are
FORCED to use that one interface. With email, you can choose any
interface you want, maintain your own personal archive, etc.
 

> These people are very top technical people (not some lamers who can't use
> email as some recent foolish posters have demanded) and they certainly could
> not support such a complex and sophisticated user community if they used an
> antique email list server with a one hour post-to-message lag time.   

RE performance, see above. As for the rest, it's opinion, not fact.
 
> For fun, you might register with www.vbulletin.com/forum and suggest they
> convert their entire community to an SMTP email list server  and see how
> many people agree with you (generic "you", not personal "you").  

Kind of a tainted audiance, don't you think? Kinda like going to a
sports bar and trying to convice people that being gay is the best thing
for them. See how many converts you get.

> Please
> post the URL of the discussion where all the developers agree with "you"
> have much better vBulletin would be if they stopped building on-line
> communities and became a helter-skelter email-based ...... Mess!
>
> The productivity of www.vbulletin.com and www.vbulletin.org surpasses the
> productivity and efficiency of this list  by orders of magnitude (hands
> down).   Just look at their archives, their posts, their announces, bug
> tracks, security releases, commercial support, etc. an infinitum.

Again, subjective. I think Asterisk is doing very well thankyouverymuch.
If you community is designed to pander to technical neophytes, it's
going to work well for those neophytes.

> Open your eyes (them from the excellent movie Vanilla Sky).......

... And use an email client that works well with mailing lists!!!