[Asterisk-Users] Newbie IVR question

Tom Forbes landslide_x at comcast.net
Sun Sep 7 23:19:04 MST 2003


Steven Critchfield wrote:
> On Sun, 2003-09-07 at 00:43, Tom Forbes wrote:
> 
>>Steven Critchfield wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 10:00, listbox at adamsbrothers.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>php is not just a web scripting language anymore.  it has been used in
>>>>other ways for quite a while now.  it works nicely from the command line,
>>>>can be used with ncurses and with gtk.  there are several well-known
>>>>respectable large projects out there built upon php.  i usually find that
>>>>php's biggest critics are those who know the least about the language. 
>>>>however that holds true with pretty much any technology.  linux suffers
>>>
>>>>from the same type of critics.
>>>
>>>
>>>Just to point out, I am a php developer. I actually am employed to
>>>create and maintain a large webapp in php. 
>>>
>>>I like the fact that I can take my php or perl scripts and not have to
>>>change much to them to work in the other language. Well if they are
>>>simple enough. There is enough well known documented problems with php.
>>
>>Such as?
> 
> 
> This is just an example that a co worker submitted recently. Now that
> bugs is back up I can point to it.
> http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=25281
> 
> A fair number of problems seem to be from the developers personalities.
> This is known in other open source software as well. Take the fact that
> so many people avoid qmail due to DJB. Monty Widenius of mysql causes
> people to continually search for something better. 

So, we're not necessarily talking about functionality problems (real 
ones anyway), but about personality problems- people who are vocal about 
their disagreement with the routes that various open source efforts have 
taken.  - I saw an article recently about a PR guy for a well-known PC 
game producer politely (relatively, anyway), tell a bunch of hard-core 
gaming fans go to hell - he'd had enough of their whining, bitching, and 
generally tiresome diatribe. Same issue - a few vocal know-it-alls think 
they speak for the entire community when they whine (loudly) because 
their particular whims aren't being met, or because the development 
doesn't conform to their desired methodology.

> 
> Although it doesn't support the php argument, here is a link for
> amusement.
> http://www.rickbradley.com/tour/
> 
> 
>>>Just saying that because it is used in large projects doesn't change
>>>whether it is suited to the task. There are enough people on this
>>>planet, that statistically you will find enough people who refuse to
>>>admit the are using a square peg for the round hole.
>>
>>If we go back to PERL's roots, we find that it was never intended as a 
>>general, all-purpose language, but one for extracting and formatting 
>>data. Now it seems as though it's being touted as the cure-all for 
>>*anything* that requires scripting. PHP's intent, on the other hand was 
>>a bit more sophisticated. Being a "web-based" scripting languange, it, 
>>by necessity, had to interface with other components (and do it 
>>efficiently) in order to acquire, manipulate, and pass data between the 
>>  user and any backend processes.
>>
>>I'm more curious to know what exactly it is about AGI scripting that 
>>would make PHP an inappropriate choice.
> 
> 
> Perl has always been intended to be glue between processes. 

You mean, the intent of PERL *has come to be* glue between processes. It 
wasn't that way in the beginning. I'd venture to say tha that most of 
what PERL can do today wasn't even a twinkle in its author's eye at the 
time it was first conceived.


I don't
> consider it the cure all for everything. While I have used the gtk
> extensions for php and perl for curiosity, I wouldn't suggest using them
> for anything that needs to be done on a production system. 
> 
> When you consider what it is you are doing, perl seems the perfect
> choice. AGI is a textual interface to your app, which then must respond
> in text. This is what perl was written to handle. 

No, PERL, more accurately, was written to chew through reams of textual 
data, and produce some kind of formatted output. Consider the definition 
that appears in the original PERL man page:

	Perl is a interpreted language optimized for scanning  arbi-
      	trary  text  files,  extracting  information from those text
      	files, and printing reports based on that information.

Though it goes on to say that it's "also good for system management 
tasks", it's clearly an afterthought- shell scripting already had this 
covered.

> 
> Php is intended to take in user input, chew on it a moment, maybe
> consult backends, then spew data and die.  

And what is it about an AGI script that does not meet each and every one 
of these criteria?

Regards,

Tom




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