<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>You're right. And Marcelo is right too.</div><div>Nothing stops you to run as match traffic as you like in a pair of links in ANSI or ITU. But Marcelo is pointing a good old fashion way originated in the US in the way how the link capacity is calculated. I remember that ITU-T red book took the principle or load calculation that AT&T made in the late 70's. That rule said that is recommendable to signal up to 2000 circuits per link (1 pair with redundancy) calculated with certain MHT, message lengths, retransmissions, and others. I'm not judging if this is right or wrong, is just a recommendation that AT&T made years ago (adopted by ITU-T).</div><div>Someone told me that discussing about ANSI and ITU is like to discuss about SCSI or IDE, or Windows or Linux. I'm not going that far, but the two variants of SS7 has their gains and flaws (24 bits against 14 for SPC, ISUP CNAM, ISUP CIC numbering, T1/E1 channel counting, etc…).</div><div>But the principles are the same, and the using for SS7 is the same too.</div><div>Links can be aggregated (nail-up connected) by the switches no matter if they're running ANSI or ITU, some carriers do that, some carriers don't. Is not a technical fact, is a business fact. STP can be used in the same way in one or another. </div><div>Also, there is no such thing as individual link per trunk group in ITU or ANSI.</div><div><br></div><div>I don't know where we going with this thread, but certainly is very far from the original concern :)</div><div><br></div><div>Take care guys</div></div><div><br></div><div>Gustavo</div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On Dec 9, 2011, at 11:11 PM, Paul Timmins wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>My switch does SS7 over T1 timeslots, but only supports 56k. I'd imagine it's because DDS modems were used over copper pair for the original links, and 56k timeslots are how DDS is transported over a T1. (Yes, you can have 64k DDS links, but I've never seen em)</div><div><br></div><div>Also, the number of voice channels you can run over 56k SS7 links is limitless, the call setup and teardown is what matters, not the number of standing calls.</div><div><br></div><div>But I wanted to point out here that nothing stops you from using ANSI SS7 the same way you describe ITU SS7, there's technically nothing more or less efficient about it. In fact, the north american setup is actually more efficient, because you can signal an entire network over two 56k links to your matched STP pairs, and that's all you need. I'm signaling trunks to something like 10 tandems, with some trunkgroups as large as 20 DS1s, in 4 LATAs over just two redundant 56k links to one STP pair. Contrast that to your individual links per trunkgroup and tell me what's more efficient.</div><div><br></div><div>-Paul</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On Dec 9, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Marcelo Pacheco wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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Typical North America SS7 signaling links use a dedicated v.35 link.
STPs and switches come with V.35 interfaces for signaling instead of
using T1 timeslots.<br>
Today the US basic digital links are 56kbps, I think 64kbps links
never caught up, due to RBS signalling.<br>
In some ways, the North America way of doing things is much less
efficient, but its the way its done.<br>
The true reason traces back to old times, when signaling links ran
on separate analog modems, and voice trunks were still analog, and
signaling links might run at 2400bps or lower speeds ! Those links
were terminated to the switches using v.35 interfaces, and speeds
moved up to 56kbps, still using those v.35 interfaces. The advantage
is the same physical interface can run at higher speeds (56kbps -
1544kbps and in between).<br>
<br>
In telco interconnect scenarios, multiples of two 56kbps links are
used. Usually between a pair of STPs on both sides, a small
interconnect could start with just two links, growing to four links.
4x56kbps links are typically enough for around 4000 voice channels,
even considering a 50% failure.<br>
<br>
That contrasts with the extensive utilization of semi permanent
digital calls, using 64kbps timeslots on E1 land.<br>
E1 land makes it so much easier. Just take time slot 16 of an
already existing voice trunks, and switch those time slots to STPs
on both sides.<br>
This makes the transport network a lot easier, interconnections only
need E1 links between TDM switches, and on each side each TDM switch
uses time slots on existing E1 links to STPs.<br>
<br>
The term SS7 on BRI makes no sense. BRI lines are 144kbps (2x64kbps
bearer channels + 16kbps signaling link). Those are never used as
SS7 transports. BRI lines are switch to end user facilities, BRI
lines never run between carrier switches or STPs.<br>
<br>
Thanks for listening to my history lesson, useless rant.<br>
<br>
Marcelo<br>
<br>
On 12/09/11 15:36, Jan Berger wrote:
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<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Signal_1">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Signal_1</a><br>
<br>
I believe it's BRI lines that uses 56kbps and your right that
SS7 on BRI have some usage in US.<br>
<br>
Jan <br>
<div>
> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 20:12:22 -0200<br>
> From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:marcelo@m2j.com.br">marcelo@m2j.com.br</a><br>
> To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:asterisk-ss7@lists.digium.com">asterisk-ss7@lists.digium.com</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-ss7] SS7 + T1 on Asterisk?<br>
> <br>
> Typically T1 (american) signaling ss7 links run at 56kbps
instead of 64kbps.<br>
> If your switch can run 64kbps links over a T1 timeslot,
than the only <br>
> remaining variable is ITU versus ANSI ISUP. They are
incompatible <br>
> (different message formats due to different network
address sizes and <br>
> other details).<br>
> We use ITU ISUP all over the place without trouble. If
the switch can do <br>
> 64kbps links and ITU ISUP, then you should be able to use
all existing <br>
> E1 direct connection samples (without STP), except for
the obvious E1=31 <br>
> timeslots while T1=24 timeslots difference..<br>
> ANSI might work. I won't go there because I have zero
experience with <br>
> ANSI SS7/ISUP (stability wise).<br>
> With 2 T1 and a single signaling link it should allow for
47 voice <br>
> channels and one signaling link.<br>
> <br>
> Search for libss7 ansi 56kbps for the most difficult
scenario. But if <br>
> you can do ITU ISUP + 64kbps links, I would suggest that
instead.<br>
> We hardly see people talking about ANSI ISUP setups on
this list, so it <br>
> could be far less stable (at least it seems to get less
usage).<br>
> <br>
> On 12/07/11 16:25, Matt wrote:<br>
> > In this case, our supplier is ourselves. We have a
DMS100, but the<br>
> > switch guy is someone other than myself - I am the
IP guy.<br>
> ><br>
> > So basically if I understand you properly, I should
be able to do the<br>
> > SS7+T1 and get proper operation, provided the
configuration on both<br>
> > sides is right.<br>
> ><br>
> > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Marcelo
Pacheco<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:marcelo@m2j.com.br"><marcelo@m2j.com.br></a> wrote:<br>
> >> If the DMS100 switch can talk signalling
directly with Asterisk, without an<br>
> >> STP, it should be possible to use a single
timeslot for ss7 signalling, so<br>
> >> with 2 T1 you could have 47 voice calls and one
signalling channel. This is<br>
> >> common with E1 setups. Also with E1 its common
for a timeslot to be<br>
> >> statically switched over to an STP (semi
permanent call), allowing for<br>
> >> access to the signaling network without a
dedicated physically separate<br>
> >> signaling link, but that's not usual in T1 land.<br>
> >><br>
> >> But what you ask is technically possible...
However its important to<br>
> >> PROPERLY LEARN SS7 terms to be able to
communicate with your supplier.<br>
> >> SS7 is a CARRIER LEVEL PROTOCOL. However people
insist on winging it without<br>
> >> proper training.<br>
> >> Its like trying to become a backbone internet
provider without properly<br>
> >> learning inter and intra network routing
protocols (like BGP and OSPF).<br>
> >><br>
> >> If you knew the general SS7/ISUP knowledge, you
could quickly find the<br>
> >> information you're looking for on Google.<br>
> >><br>
> >> PS: I live in E1 land... I'm just quoting
information from the top of my<br>
> >> head. I have no need for T1+SS7. E1+SS7 is a
little simpler with Asterisk<br>
> >> than T1+SS7 due to 56kbps data links, ANSI
ISUP/SS7 and some other quirks.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Good luck. You'll need it.<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> On 12/07/11 14:47, Matt wrote:<br>
> >>> If I were to get a 2 span T1 card for
Asterisk... and connect it to a<br>
> >>> Nortel DMS100... can I run call traffic over
the T1 and run SS7<br>
> >>> signaling FOR the T1 over the other port?<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Is there documentation on doing this
anywhere?<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> --<br>
> >>>
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