[asterisk-dev] Mailing List Future
Paul Kudla
paul at scom.ca
Fri Jan 5 02:58:35 CST 2024
again just trying to help
when i signed up for the new mailing list
see headers below,
a few things to note, return address & from address needs to match, this
is a common spam filter which is enabled on my email server.
You have no idea how many emails come in saying from "Paul Kudla
<groups.io>" for example which my server picks up as a bad email address
before delivery. (Because Paul Kudla is paul at scom.ca ?)
Reply-to carries the same issues which is why they are ignored coming
through the system.
on other notes postfix is programmed for FQDN and reverse ip looks etc
that must match the sending smtp serve sending the emails. Sincce stuff
is showing up that does not appear to be an issue but thought i should
mention that.
also note i and no one else opens an entire domain like groups.io or any
other domain(s)
it would be like allowing all email from *@gmail.com
just not practical.
scom.ca is a small provider compared to others but over 80% of my email
server traffic is spam, hacks etc and programming is in place to prevent
anything from wrecking a customers account (viruses, blacklisted ip's
etc) - this is what prompted the SPAMCOP.NET issue as it is one for the
dnsbl lookups on my postfix server. I had access to the log files so was
able to track that down, but another question it seems if email bounces
back to groups.io do you get a report ? - a lot of email servers like
microsoft do not report bouncebacks thus making it hard to trace issues
upon setup.
I know you are restricted by the groups.io and apparently this is a free
account, which is why i suggested if groups.io can interface to an
external email server or at least an external out smtp server that is
programmed with all the correct setups (spf,dkim,ssl etc etc)
it seems you need to be in more control of the outbound email side.
inbound emails could still be received by the groups.io server on the mx
record side ?
just a thought out load as I am not fimiliar with groups.io setup up
until now. It seems a lot of assumptions are being made (aka willy nilly
sending emails without proper formats?) because groups.io is doing
things on your behalf.
________________________________________________________________________
Return-Path: <confirmbounce+8107350+4201506166695547482 at groups.io>
Delivered-To: paul at scom.ca
Received: from mail18.scom.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by mail18.scom.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86B773308F7
for <paul at scom.ca>; Wed, 3 Jan 2024 02:13:33 -0500 (EST)
Received-SPF: Pass (sender SPF authorized) identity=mailfrom;
client-ip=66.175.222.12; helo=mail01.groups.io;
envelope-from=confirmbounce+8107350+4201506166695547482 at groups.io;
receiver=paul at scom.ca
Received: from mail01.groups.io (web01.groups.io [66.175.222.12])
by mail19.scom.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 013452F6DF9
for <paul at scom.ca>; Tue, 2 Jan 2024 09:35:50 -0500 (EST)
DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256;
bh=2L8kigt5JlfFeasByEEfmpZEBvHgEpI5D0C/6Dtxwms=;
c=relaxed/simple; d=groups.io;
h=From:To:Reply-To:Subject:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:Precedence:Content-Type;
s=20140610; t=1704206151; v=1;
b=H37esqpfH2WJ7IbV3AaYjdY2YLm58eBwUDG8rVasNWR4MD3pv0IpRALutqCv/sA/rqVIdeGh
QUjXyJR+AsDXYI8xdS6lzmHT4/8uGE671pm/fvh8DOGdaMQgCTjGfNLRT2qxqGpZskq4q/4/0Vc
t9mPEUguroQyf6iz/EBrgO1U=
From: "Groups.io Notification" <confirmbounce at groups.io>
To: paul at scom.ca
Reply-To: "Groups.io" <confirm+4201506166695547482+8107350 at groups.io>
Subject: [asterisk-dev] Confirm your paul at scom.ca email address
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2024 02:35:51 -0800
Message-ID: <0XtB.1704191751905265532.Le4b at groups.io>
Precedence: Bulk
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="xZWc9K0oFmhWfFZXJjTn"
X-SCOM-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information
X-SCOM-MailScanner-ID: 013452F6DF9.A9F4D
X-SCOM-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-SCOM-MailScanner-From: confirmbounce+8107350+4201506166695547482 at groups.io
X-Spam-Status: No
X-TMDA-Confirm-Done: 1704206180.77180.0d6479
X-TMDA-Released: Wed, 03 Jan 2024 02:13:32 -0500
X-TMDA-CGI: 10.0.0.5 (Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64;
rv:109.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/115.0)
--xZWc9K0oFmhWfFZXJjTn
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
Thank you for your interest in the https://groups.io/g/asterisk-dev group a=
t Groups.io. If you did not request or do not want to join asterisk-dev at gro=
ups.io, please ignore this message.
_____________________________________________________________________
Have A Happy Friday !!!
Thanks - Paul Kudla (Manager SCOM.CA Internet Services Inc.)
Scom.ca Internet Services <http://www.scom.ca>
004-1009 Byron Street South
Whitby, Ontario - Canada
L1N 4S3
Toronto 416.642.7266
Main 1.866.411.7266
Fax 1.888.892.7266
Email paul at scom.ca
On 1/4/2024 9:06 AM, asterisk at phreaknet.org wrote:
>
> Could you point out a specific message where this is the case?
> I just looked at a few messages and I don't see bounce at groups.io anywhere.
> The MAIL FROM address used in the SMTP transaction is a VERP-style
> address, unique for every recipient on a list. This way if there is a
> bounce, groups.io knows who bounced and can automatically unsubscribe
> them, without reading the bounce message at all.
> Even the confirmation email I got uses a VERP-style address.
>
> The From headers are sometimes manipulated as you may have noticed, as
> when domains are configured with a DMARC policy, groups.io will rewrite
> the From header so it still looks almost the same but is using their
> domain.
> The old list did not do this, so to Josh's point about mailing list
> messages frequently going to spam, that may have been due to DMARC, and
> so deliverability might increase with the new list since it's handling
> it properly.
>
> There is a List-Id header that contains the address of the mailing list.
> Perhaps you can use that in your filtering?
> If you're really an ISP though, you should be allowing all groups.io
> stuff to go through since there are a huge number of other lists there.
>
> On 1/4/2024 5:52 AM, Paul Kudla (SCOM.CA Internet Services Inc.) wrote:
>>
>> Good morning
>>
>> I got verified however the new mailing list is using
>>
>> Asterisk Development Team via groups.io <bounce at groups.io>
>>
>> note the bounce at groups.io
>>
>> should really be an asterisk email address
>>
>> if i open up groups.io (like msvc etc) then spam will flow
>>
>> i am an isp and apologise for the comments knowing you are doing you
>> best, just letting you know some difficulties before they become a
>> large scale issue
>>
>>
>> Have A Happy Thursday !!!
>>
>> Thanks - Paul Kudla (Manager SCOM.CA Internet Services Inc.)
>>
>>
>> Scom.ca Internet Services <http://www.scom.ca>
>> 004-1009 Byron Street South
>> Whitby, Ontario - Canada
>> L1N 4S3
>>
>> Toronto 416.642.7266
>> Main 1.866.411.7266
>> Fax 1.888.892.7266
>> Email paul at scom.ca
>>
>> On 2024-01-02 8:55 a.m., asterisk-dev-bounces at lists.digium.com wrote:
>>> On 1/2/2024 5:55 AM, Joshua C. Colp wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 6:41 AM Paul Kudla <paul at scom.ca
>>>> <mailto:paul at scom.ca>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good morning
>>>>
>>>> Note I am unable to confirm my new email on the group because the
>>>> email
>>>> is using a blocked server ??
>>>>
>>>> mail19 01-02 05:35:51 {postfix.in <http://postfix.in>}
>>>> [63603] (1871410360) Jan 02
>>>> 05:35:51 mail19 postfix/smtpd[63603]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
>>>>
>>>> web01.groups.io <http://web01.groups.io>[66.175.222.12]: 454 4.7.1
>>>> Service unavailable; Client
>>>> host [66.175.222.12] blocked using
>>>>
>>>> bl.spamcop.net <http://bl.spamcop.net>; Blocked - see
>>>> https://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?66.175.222.12;
>>>>
>>>> from=<confirmbounce+8107350+4201506166695547482 at groups.io
>>>> <mailto:confirmbounce%2B8107350%2B4201506166695547482 at groups.io>>
>>>> to=<paul at scom.ca <mailto:paul at scom.ca>> proto=ESMTP
>>>>
>>>> helo=<mail01.groups.io <http://mail01.groups.io>>
>>>>
>>>> I did get the signup and also set my password but am unable to
>>>> proceed.
>>>>
>>>> SPAMCOP.NET <http://SPAMCOP.NET> is super flexible (ie will track
>>>> and update bad ip's on the
>>>> fly within 24 hours, so to land on this list means a server has
>>>> been
>>>> very very bad.
>>>>
>>>> let me know if i can help further.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think either of us can really help. Looking at groups.io
>>>> <http://groups.io> posts this appears to happen sometimes, be it as
>>>> a remaining result of a Yahoo migration that occurred in the past or
>>>> from group admins adding email addresses for SpamCop spam traps in
>>>> some capacity.
>>>>
>>>> InterLinked: You previously stated that most lists you've been on
>>>> migrated to groups.io <http://groups.io>, has this been a problem
>>>> for them and if so how did they approach it (if at all)?
>>>
>>> I have to be on at least 2 or 3 dozen groups.io lists at this point
>>> and I've not really seen this be much of a problem. It haven't seen
>>> it on any of my lists with 100+ members or really heard about it on
>>> other lists. Occasionally, maybe a couple times a year, there are
>>> *bounces* and I know groups.io will auto unsubscribe users if it gets
>>> bounces to comply with email subscription policies and what not. I
>>> don't have any specific experience with SpamCop, that isn't a service
>>> I use on my mail servers.
>>>
>>> I think this is going to be inevitable to some extent with any hosted
>>> mailing list. groups.io has a pool of IPs that they use but obviously
>>> they are shared between lists. Digium has been self-hosting lists so
>>> it hasn't had to worry about this in the past.
>>>
>>> groups.io also has an online portal where you can register and manage
>>> groups, but that probably entails receiving an email at some point so
>>> you might run into the same issue there if you can't receive email.
>>>
>>> Can you add the sender to your "safe senders" lists? IMO email
>>> services that don't allow the spam rules to be overridden are
>>> fundamentally flawed, but I realize you may not have control over
>>> that or be able to switch services.
>>>
>>> It probably doesn't hurt to get in touch with the guy that runs
>>> groups.io, here: https://groups.io/helpcenter. I and others have
>>> reached out before for things and he's helpful and responsive.
>>>
>>
>
>
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