[asterisk-dev] 1.4 and CDRs -- The Breaking Point

Venefax venefax at gmail.com
Sat Feb 7 14:37:07 CST 2009 

The fact that Easysoft does not want to work with virtualization makes it a
useless product. Think about the economies of scale. I have several servers
with 16 cores and 128 GB of RAM, filled with Asterisk's virtual machines. I
calculated that going that route would cost my company over 1 million
dollars, versus zero with Freetds. What we do is wholesale trading. We
assign an independent Asterisk virtual machine to each client. We use a
cluster software provided by Proxmox, that allows us to relocate the virtual
environments when the machine needs to be taken down, etc. The technology
underneath the hood is OpenVZ, which has very little overhead. Please
suggest a better strategy and I will follow it. I have around 400 virtual
machines in my environment, in one single rack. I hope you don't think that
you can match this scenario with blades an still stay in one single rack. 
I think that the British are royalists, even when writing software. We are
revolutionaries, even when applying technologies to make money. God save
Obama.


-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-dev-bounces at lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-dev-bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Michiel van Baak
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 12:36 PM
To: asterisk-dev at lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [asterisk-dev] 1.4 and CDRs -- The Breaking Point

On 11:49, Sat 07 Feb 09, Venefax wrote:
> There is certainly a "paid" version, extremely expensive, $1500 per box.
If
> you use virtual machines, exclusively, like I do, it would cost you a
> fortune, I mean, literally. I explained the fact that in the US we are
fully
> virtualized and we use hundreds of virtual machines in cluster of big
> servers, a cloud, instead of a big physical box, but the manufacturer in
> London wanted $1500 per virtual machine and I had to stop using them,
after
> buying one copy. They are clearly still living in the 20th century.
England
> is still a place with a queen. I argued for a change on the licensing
model,
> but they would not follow any clues. You are welcome to contact them.
>
http://www.easysoft.com/products/data_access/index.html?gclid=CNTild_uypgCFQ
> pgswodQB0W1Q

Cant help it, but I have to go off-topic here.
Please ignore this email if you like.

You are clearly not getting the idea here.
A virtual machine is still a machine. Licenses that are sold per machine
are licenses that are sold per machine.
They have totally no need to change their way of doing business because
you are using virtualisation.
There's no way they force you to use virtualisation or a big box.

The statement that everyone is using virtualisation is wrong as well.
Most 'cloud' setups are still done with bare-metal running the service.

Add to that that virtualisation is highly overrated and you'll see where
this is going.

A license is a license. They decided to go this way. If you dont like it
dont use it.

Question:
Digium is selling G729 (and soon skype) on a per channel basis.
Are you going to make the same statement as above when your business
reaches 100 concurrent channels with this technology ?

Question2:
Most colocating facilities charge you per KWh power.
Are you going to make the same statement as above when you replace all
your gear with HP blades that need 380v 2500W powersupplies ?

</rant>

Now to the constructive part of my email:
If this problem is affecting you, why not setup a linux box/couple of
linux boxen with postgresql ?
Most of the things in mssql can easily be converted to postgresql (I
know because I did loads of those conversions) and all the stuff you
need is available for free.

> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk-dev-bounces at lists.digium.com
> [mailto:asterisk-dev-bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Sebastian
> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 11:32 AM
> To: 'Asterisk Developers Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-dev] 1.4 and CDRs -- The Breaking Point
> 
> Is there any other MSSQL driver to compare the results?
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk-dev-bounces at lists.digium.com
> [mailto:asterisk-dev-bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Tilghman
Lesher
> Sent: s?bado, 07 de febrero de 2009 01:32 p.m.
> To: Asterisk Developers Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-dev] 1.4 and CDRs -- The Breaking Point
> 
> On Saturday 07 February 2009 04:40:32 Venefax wrote:
> > Your statement about Freetds is untrue. I hired Frediano Ziglio of the
> > Freetds team to work with Murphy and he did not find any problem by
> tracing
> > the driver.
> 
> You also hired Digium to trace the problem, and we couldn't find a single
> problem with our stack, either.
> 
> > Furthermore, it can be proven that Freetds works fine since I 
> > use AGI and Perl to the same job that slows Asterisk to a halt.
> 
> That's not the same job.  By your own admission, it opens and closes the
> database connection for every single job and runs each query in a
completely
> separate process.  That's quite a bit different from sharing resources and
> running many queries on the same connection.
> 
> > There is 
> > like a bottleneck in Asterisk. When the amount of calls to a func_odbc
> > driver goes above 10-15 per second, the rate of calls to the database
> > versus calls to func_odbc starts dropping dramatically.
> 
> Except that it doesn't, when you use a backend like MySQL.  It's only when
> you
> use the FreeTDS backend that it slows down.
> 
> > I call that 
> > constipation. Please ask Steve Murphy about the case.
> 
> I actually worked closely with Steve Murphy on this case, and I'm fully
> aware
> of the testing done.
> 
> > The only way to make 
> > it work is to call a Perl script that opens and closes a connection to
the
> > database for each call, which is absolutely inefficient and makes me use
a
> > very expensive SQL machine. The mechanism to share the connections to
SQL,
> > called "pooling", is flawed. Just picture it this way: Asterisk cannot
> > handle more than 20 queries per second to the database using func_odbc,
> > while I can get to 100+ calls per second using AGI and Perl. I have not
> > reached yet any upper limit using Perl.
> 
> Right, but you're using a completely different methodology that relies on
> hundreds of different engines running concurrently, as opposed to running
> hundreds of different instances on the same engine.
> 
> > I think that we need to redesign 
> > the entire ODBC technology from scratch.
> 
> You are certainly welcome to redesign it and contribute your new design
back
> to the community.  Many others, who are not using FreeTDS, have no problem
> using func_odbc.
> 
> -- 
> Tilghman
> 
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-- 

Michiel van Baak
michiel at vanbaak.eu
http://michiel.vanbaak.eu
GnuPG key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x71C946BD

"Why is it drug addicts and computer aficionados are both called users?"


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