[Asterisk-Dev] RFC: Moderating the Asterisk Mailing Lists

[Andrew Kohlsmith]

On January 7, 2005 12:22 pm, Gregory Junker wrote:
> > There are plenty of people here who possess tact and diplomacy.  You seem
> > to expect those qualities to be a requirement; they're not.
>
> They are a requirement for any open-source project to reach its full
> potential. Nothing turns off a newbie to a project faster than a
> smartass or hostile response to what they believe is a valid question.

The potential for any open-source project is highly subjective.  While I agree 
with you in theory, who are you to say what Asterisk's potential is?  (Yes, 
this is a bit of devil's advocacy here.)

I think a lot of trouble can be saved if the -dev list were kept hidden and 
out of the eye of the newbies -- if they've got a true -dev question, they 
will be able to find the -dev list.  It's not so much an elitist thing as it 
is a "if you don't know if this is the list to ask in, it isn't." kind of 
thing.

> It all comes down to one simple fact: open-source projects far and away
> are started and "managed" by engineers, who have demonstrated time and
> again throughout history, and continue to do so today, why they are not
> allowed to interact with the user community. Engineers don't like users,
> they really don't. Engineers believe that users just get in the way.

Correct.  As an engineer myself (one who's crossed the line and is now a Field 
Applications Engineer) I see both sides of the fence.  I enjoy both sides of 
the fence, and I understand what each party on their side of the fence says 
and where they're coming from.

Having said that, there is no easy solution.  I personally don't believe in 
berating the odd newbie who wanders over into the -dev camp from time to time 
I completely understand the punishment that is sometimes (more often than 
not) meted out, much to the shock and horror of the newbie involved and 
anyone near the scene at the time.  I didn't say I necessarily agree with it, 
but that I understand it.

This is the -dev area.  If you can't hack it, get out.  Really and truly it 
does come to that.  No "mere user" should have wont to post here.  Hell, no 
mere integrator should have wont to post here, this is the list for people 
actively hacking on the source.

> do not realize exists. Asterisk is a HORRIBLY designed project from a
> usability standpoint. Asterisk is an FANTASTICALLY designed project from
> a technical standpoint.

Correct -- So if you're able and willing to help with the former, great.  
Otherwise Asterisk's "potential" as you put it will not be met.  It's sad but 
true.

No engineer likes doing documentation.  You're going to find it difficult to 
find someone to do it, and whinging about "achieving potential" and "scaring 
off newbies" isn't going to convince anyone.

Simply put: step up or step out.  

> So if you want the project to remain within the community of technical
> users only, by all means continue to berate the new users for asking
> basic questions.

To be perfectly honest -- until it becomes an issue nobody is going to care.  
I don't think (and I personally don't) care if Asterisk becomes a household 
name.  I am making good money off of consulting and showing people what it 
can do and NONE of these people gives a rat's ass if they get berated for 
posting to -dev.  Hell none of them gives a rat's ass to look at a config 
file.  They are coming to me to make it work for them, and *I* care about the 
config files and berating newbies <g>.  I'm in the business of making 
Asterisk work.  They're in whatever business they are in and need phones.

Really I think it all comes down to the development process (and developers) 
being "available" to the general public.  You simply don't hear the Nortel 
developers bitch about the users and I'm sure if you had them coming into the 
office saying "how come I can't get feature $foo to work?" they'd be helped 
begrudgingly...  Now do it a hundred times -- the newbie would be given a 
pretty chilly response, don't you think?

It's a pretty good fit if you ask me.  Is it harming Asterisk?  Not really.  
It's a selective process, and one that many people (even me to some extent) 
feel is a little too selective at times, but it's not THAT bad.

-A.