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<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Well
I suppose now is as good a time as any to <i><span style='font-style:italic'>break
cover</span></i> </span></font><font face=Wingdings><span style='font-family:
Wingdings'>J</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>If
you are interested in a SIP browser based solution check out;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://www.surphone.com/">www.Surphone.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Yes
there are server based and ASP based pricing models, yes it uses Flash –
not it doesn’t use Adobe FMS.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>No
this isn’t related to the work I did with Mexuar, Yes I am consulting
with Surphone for the commercialization of their technology and yes I will be
selling the technology here in the <st2:country-region w:st="on"><st2:place
w:st="on">USA</st2:place></st2:country-region>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>If
you are a <st2:country-region w:st="on"><st2:place w:st="on">USA</st2:place></st2:country-region>
based client and have an interest send me an email for more details.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Dean
Collins<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Cognation
Pty Ltd<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>dean@cognation.net
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><st1:dial w:st="on"><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>+1-212-203-4357</span></font></st1:dial><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><st1:dial w:st="on"><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>+61-2-9016-5642</span></font></st1:dial> (<st2:place
w:st="on"><st2:City w:st="on">Sydney</st2:City></st2:place> in-dial). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
-----Original Message-----</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-biz-</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Tim H. Panton</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
Sent: Tuesday, 4 March 2008 3:46 AM</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
To: trixter@0xdecafbad.com; Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
Discussion</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ? 1ezphone.com</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
(Sorry about the top posting - It's just the way Zimbra does it)</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
There are a couple of things to look out for here</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
(straying into tech issues):</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
1) buffering - TCP tends to get buffered in the kernel to a</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
much greater extent than udp - so you can easily find yourself</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
with seconds of latency.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
2) codecs - The only low-latency codec supported by flash</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
is patented and expensive to license, so the gateway to PSTN</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
or 'normal' VoIP will always have to carry an aditional cost</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
of the nelly-moser codec license.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
3) protocols - Flash is using a streaming protocol (RTSP),</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
which isn't a VoIP protocol, so has not got the VoIP features</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
we have come to expect.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
All of which is why adobe is (supposed to be) adding SIP</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
to some future version of Flash.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
- Ok, I admit it, I'm biased, I'm in the Java - IAX camp :-)</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
But in general I'm sure that this sort of web-telephony</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
integration is inevitable. See http://www.phonefromhere.com for our</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
latest experiment - an iGoogle 'phone home' gadget.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
Tim.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
----- Original Message -----</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
From: "Trixter aka Bret McDanel" <trixter@0xdecafbad.com></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion" <asterisk-</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
biz@lists.digium.com></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
Sent: 29 February 2008 12:47:21 o'clock (GMT) Europe/London</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ? 1ezphone.com</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> > ----- Original Message -----</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> > From: "Mike Clark"</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> > To: email@mattruby.com, "Commercial and
Business-Oriented Asterisk</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> > Discussion"</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> > Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Ribbit.com ?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> > Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:21:50 -0500</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> > Ribbit has a totally different model as they
are a full blown ITSP and</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> > have provided a Flex/Actionscript API to
their Flash phone</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> > component at</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> > no charge to developers. I have an app ready
to roll as soon as</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> > they are</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> > completely live.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> ></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> > I would love to see a similar type API to a
Flash SIP or IAX2</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> > component</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> > where I could access my own Asterisk or
Freeswitch server.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
> ></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
Flash does not afaik support UDP so the RTP part would be difficult at</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
best. I am unsure if the really new versions do or not. Granted you</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
could have a plugin (flash does have the ability to execute programs</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
that are in a special directory) which really only would need to be a</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
tcp->udp converter if you wanted, although it could be a full RTP stack</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
as well instead of doing that in flash.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
Gizmophone has a web component that transmits the audio via HTTPS via</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
flash. I havent looked at ribbit so I dont know if that is how they are</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
doing it or not. They also use a plugin to try to limit how many calls</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
you can do at one time off one box (they did give away free minutes at</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
one point, they may still do that).</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
While the SIP RFC requires TCP support for signalling, the media would</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
still be udp and still be the problem. And if you want to connect to</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
asterisk you have to use UDP signalling since asterisk does not yet</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
officially support TCP, despite the RFCs requirement.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
Personally what I think would be better is a very simple app that can</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
send events (on/off hook, dnd/presence, dtmf digits, number dialed, etc)</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
as well as media (just stream it from the mic direct, which is something</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
that flash has built in). This would connect to some server side</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
process that will then connect to whatever protocol you prefer for</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
termination elsewhere.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
On lossy networks you would have a problem of a dropped packet causing a</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
retransmit, however this may not be that big of a problem in many</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
environments. If you have any sort of jitter buffer you should be able</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
to resync the call dynamically so that packet loss does not cause a</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
growing skew between leg A and leg B. This is probably the biggest</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
problem to solve, and I do not know how big of a problem it will be for</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
most users (for some it will be a killer).</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
Now if they have java installed as well, flash can do liveconnect calls</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
to the JRE, but if you are going to go that route, it might be better to</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
just do it all in java to begin with.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
Now flash recently aquired a key person that was involved in SIP stuff.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
The theory (and some statements officially) indicate that the intention</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
is to build a proper sip stack into flash, but that has yet to be</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
released.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
There are other bridges that exist to basically do the tcp->udp</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
translation, which could be run on the users system. Examples include</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
http://www.transmote.com/flosc/</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
While this is designed to do the open sound protocol, it would not be</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
difficult to make it do something else, and if you really know action</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
script you can get around little things like you dont have to do xml</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
with the xmlsocket, you can bypass the null byte terminator that is</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
often sent, etc.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
For what is needed to do the tcp->udp bridge it wouldnt be hard to write</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
that on your own, and then go nuts.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
--</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel</span></font></p>
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