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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hello Dave,<br>
<br>
In VoIP I can actually you tell that 100ms of delay is nothing even 200ms is
quite acceptable. As long as you are using a good codec ie ulaw / alaw + have sufficient
bandwidth + no pocket loss and etc. then you can still achieve high quality
calls out of it.<br>
<br>
You see if you dial a international number like oversea call with your local
PSTN provider, you will not notice much decrease in quality even though the other
side of the person may be somewhere half way around the world..<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Sam <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'> asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>dave cantera<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, February 16, 2008
7:09 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Commercial
and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion</st1:PersonName>;
m345@netvision.net.il; nk3569@yahoo.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [asterisk-biz] VoIP
Provider Matrix of rates/services</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#330000" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#330000" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>moshe, nitzan,<br>
thanks for the comments... didn't think it even possible with up to 200ms
delay. yes, there are many factors in quality of
call... I guess that is why I wanted to nail down the quality
parameters so I knew what to ask for in a provider but at a deeper
level.... perhaps it is too complicated an issue to address
right now with the fact being that your voice packets can transverse the
country of origin a few times and hit multiple providers before it gets to the
PSTN. guess I'll have to wait for a more complete matrix and target on
rates only right now.<br>
thanks for your input.<br>
daveC<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Moshe Maeir wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<pre wrap=""><font size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Actually in the countries I work in (we have servers in 3 countries, <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>including the one you mention) the norm is 8ms - 20ms. However<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>we do have customers farther away and they go up to 200 and sometimes <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>even more.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>All I am saying is that latency is only one factor, and there are others <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>such as packet loss, jitter etc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Not to mention termination where results can be all over the ballpark no <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>matter how close "your provider" is to you...<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Nitzan Kon wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite><pre wrap=""><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>In your country, the current norm is probably around 200 ms. But since<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>that is the case, I imagine ISPs are more dedicated to eliminating lost<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>packets, etc. so the service does not suffer except for (very) slight<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>delays. Last time I spoke to my father (same country) via VoIP, he<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>couldn't notice a delay at all on his side. I noticed it, but it wasn't<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>significant.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>In the <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region> though- service from a 200 ms provider, or a 40 ms provider,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>makes a HUGE difference in voice quality, in my experience.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> -- Nitzan<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>--- Moshe Maeir <a
href="mailto:m345@netvision.net.il"><m345@netvision.net.il></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>---------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Dave,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I can comment on 100ms delay remark, that it is not always true. Wehave<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>call center customers who have 180 - 220ms and are happy.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>There are other factors besides latency which can effect quality, so<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Ido not completely agree with your comment<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Moshe<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>dave cantera wrote: moshe, nitzan,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I already compiled a list from website info... not totally<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>completethough. all public info w/o calls to providers... <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>really, I wanted the providers to update the matrix themselves over<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>theweb so they could control the information.. the biggest reason I<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>don'tthink they should have a problem with it is they all don't cover<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>theentire world or the <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region> either. some servers have too much delay,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>over100ms, so any customers they have outside their 'local network<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>area'would get poor service and they shouldn't want to waste their time<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>ifthey can't provide the service to those customers... knowing that<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>infotidbit saves face and bad will... helps the community too!<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>any additional thoughts?<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>daveC<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Moshe Maeir wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>The best would be in the spirit of web 2.0 - a list of providers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>which would have data, that partially be filled in by the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>companies(like voip-info has), but also have an active user rating<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>system.Nitzan Kon wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>It is a good idea, and I would love to have a list of<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>wholesaleproviders readily available so I can pick and choose the ones<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I likemost according to price & support criteria.The problems with this<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>are, well, half the providers I've contacted inthe past request that<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>you sign a non-disclosure agreement, and theother half act like their<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>rates a big secret, and only disclose themupon request. I think this<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>has a lot to do with providers being worriedabout competition, but in<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>the end if you provide overpriced servicewith bad quality/support<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>customers WILL find someone better whether youpublish your rates or<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>not.You could always start a matrix by yourself... the only problem<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>withthis is that you won't be able to publish providers who require<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>anon-disclosure agreement. But then again- 9 times out of 10 those<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>arebad quality and overpriced. I would avoid those anyway despite<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>any(false) promises they might make. -- Nitzan--- dave cantera<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="mailto:david.cantera@iacnet.net"><david.cantera@iacnet.net></a> wrote:--------------------------------- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>hi,I see frequent questions on the list for voip providers. would<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>itbehelpful to have a voip provider matrix of services? would the voip<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>providers on the list support<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>it?daveC_______________________________________________--Bandwidth and<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
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size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-- My wife's sister is in <st1:State
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size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
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size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><font size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by <a
href="http://www.api-digital.com">http://www.api-digital.com</a>--<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>asterisk-biz mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a
href="http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz">http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#330000" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<pre><font size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=2 color="#330000"
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>My wife's sister is in <st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">California</st1:place></st1:State>. <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I should buy her a Videophone2008!<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Truly, The Next Best Thing to Being There!<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>--<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>WorldWideVideoPhones.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>856.380.0894<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color="#330000" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre></div>
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