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Jim,<br>
<br>
I don't know how you suppose to confuse yourself, but your explanation
of a product<br>
impressed me.<br>
<br>
PS: I would like to talk about it in person. Is this possible? You know
my cell phone number,<br>
but I don't know yours. ;)<br>
<br>
<br>
Jim Van Meggelen wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid003f01c51639$5d9fae20$6e01a8c0@xp2400" type="cite">
<pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com">asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com</a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">OK, I see we agree completely :)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
LOL! I'm glad you said that, because to be honest, I was starting to
confuse myself!
Jim.
--
Jim Van Meggelen
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jim@vanmeggelen.ca">jim@vanmeggelen.ca</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com">asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com">mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com</a>] On Behalf Of
Jim Van Meggelen
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 9:35 PM
To: 'Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion'
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-biz] Asterisk for small businesses.
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com">asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com</a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Van Meggelen
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com">asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com</a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Jim,
Is "tool kit" a product? Is "raw material" a product? I think so,
and they all need to look for a place in market to fit, this is
called market positioning, this is a process of productization, and
that is my point.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I understand your point, I just don't think Asterisk itself is a
product. You can use it to build products, but in and of itself, it
just doesn't fit that model.
If it is a product, it is in the same way that any other software
toolkit is. Microsoft Visual Studio is a product, because you have
to pay for it. Perl, C++ and such are also used by developers, but
they are not sold. Can't see how they are products.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">So if someone starts charging for Asterisk, then it magically turns
into a product?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Not much magic to it. If you download and compile the source
code, I, myself, personally, my opionion only, wouldn't see
that as a product. Depending on your point of view, and the
dictionary you use, it is also arguable that it *is* a product.
I'm finding that Asterisk solutions share a lot with website
development. It's my opinion only, but I say the "product" is
the website, not the HTML editor the designer used to code
it, nor the CGI language used to present it. The website is
what was produced.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Perl, C++ aren't products? GCC is a
product. The C++ specification is a product. Emacs is a product.
MS sends me MSDN Universal for free. Does that mean it's not a
product?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Myself, I would think of those as tools, since they are not
sold to the customer, but rather used to create solutions.
I'm not telling you you're wrong, merely that in a business
context I don't see the term "product" applying to those things.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Money doesn't have anything to do with the definition of products.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I agree. I'd say it all depends on the context in which the
term is used. I think at this point it's more a matter of semantics.
Let me run this one by you:
If a business sells, say tires, I should say they consider
tires to be their product. If they hand out a brochure at a
car show, I doubt they would consider the brochure to be a
product. If you were to start a debate with them on the
topic, I suspect thay would be adamant that that brochure was
not a product.
Now *is* that brochure a product? Well, how about we ask the
company that printed it? They'll tell you quite proudly that
"of course it's a product". "What about the ink or the
paper?" "Naw, those are just raw materials".
OK, so you ask the paper supplier - they'll tell you "Sure,
paper is a product - it's our business!".
Is a tree a product? It's usually not considered that until
you cut it down and make something with it.
OK, so back to Asterisk. The impression I've been getting is
that people who look at Asterisk as a product tend to find it
very limited, complicated and expensive. People who look at
it as a toolkit are in heaven. I don't know if this is an
absolute fact, but those are the conclusions I have drawn
from the evidence I've seen.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Now, if you mean to say Asterisk isn't a boxed retail SKU type of
product that a business manager might grab while at Walmart to
install at his office on Monday, I think everyone would agree with
you.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">In the context of this thread, that's exactly what I felt was
being meant by the use of the term product. The term
"productization" was specifially used, which, while not yet a
dictionary term (at least not on m-w) is generally considered
to mean the process of taking a technology, invention, idea
or whatever, and turning it into an item that can be sold.
As for the Wal-Mart thing, somebody will build such a thing
with Asterisk in short order, I've no doubt.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
All the Best!
Sergey.
=========================
Sergey Kuznetsov
President/CEO
High Intellectual Technologies, Inc.
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.hitcalls.com">http://www.hitcalls.com</a>
E-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sergey.kuznetsov@highintellect.com">sergey.kuznetsov@highintellect.com</a>
Business phone: (416) 548-9700
Mobile phone: (647) 287-8448</pre>
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