[asterisk-biz] India VoIP termination - FRAUD- BE Careful

Vlasis Hatzistavrou (KTI) vhatz at kinetix.gr
Mon Nov 16 16:54:26 CST 2009


Indeed, usually they don't when it comes to old companies with a long 
history, and only as long as you can prove a rock solid point/case. We 
have faced some ugly situations even with "respectable" companies who 
were in the telecoms business for a decade or more. If we had not 
covered many possible angles we would literally have been cheated out of 
thousands of dollars.

On the other hand, a new company with a very short history does not have 
that much of a reputation to jeopardize by fraudulent practices.

Wes Reece wrote:
> True, but most companies don't throw their reputations away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2009/11/15 Vlasis Hatzistavrou (KTI) <vhatz at kinetix.gr 
> <mailto:vhatz at kinetix.gr>>
> 
>     Well, trade references, due diligence etc are usually OK, but since
>     these things refer to the past of a company, you never know when/if this
>     company which you just decided to get in business with decides to turn
>     to the "dark side"...
> 
>     I mean future payments are not 100% guaranteed because of a good past.
> 
>     Best regards,
>     Vlasis Hatzistavrou.
> 
>     Wes Reece wrote:
>      > What about simply asking for trade references and due diligence
>     on your
>      > potential customer?
>      >
>      >
>      > 2009/11/3 Vlasis Hatzistavrou (KTI) <vhatz at kinetix.gr
>     <mailto:vhatz at kinetix.gr>
>      > <mailto:vhatz at kinetix.gr <mailto:vhatz at kinetix.gr>>>
>      >
>      >     Of, course, the escrow agent has to actually do something
>     more than just
>      >     "guard" the money.
>      >
>      >     Now there are escrow agencies which receive CDRs from both
>     parties in
>      >     real time or in bathes every few hours. So, in case of a
>     dispute the
>      >     escrow agent acts as a referee, too.
>      >
>      >     Best regards,
>      >     Vlasis Hatzistavrou.
>      >
>      >
>      >     Mindaugas Kezys wrote:
>      >      >>From our experience escrow is not good choice either.
>     Other side
>      >     can argue
>      >      > that service was bad/unusable and you will not get paid
>     for it.
>      >      >
>      >      > Regards,
>      >      > Mindaugas Kezys
>      >      > http://www.kolmisoft.com
>      >      > VoIP Billing and Routing Solutions
>      >      >
>      >      >
>      >      > -----Original Message-----
>      >      > From: asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com>
>      >     <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com>>
>      >      > [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com>
>      >     <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com>>] On Behalf Of Vlasis
>      >      > Hatzistavrou (KTI)
>      >      > Sent: 2009 m. lapkričio 2 d. 13:54
>      >      > To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
>      >      > Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] India VoIP termination - FRAUD- BE
>      >     Careful
>      >      >
>      >      > Just my 2 cents: there are escrow, exchange &
>     clearinghouse services
>      >      > that one can use in order to secure business.
>      >      >
>      >      > Simple prepay/postpay nowadays is too dangerous, not only with
>      >     small &
>      >      > unknown operators but even with large & well known
>     carriers. They too
>      >      > will dispute just about anything...
>      >      >
>      >      > Best regards,
>      >      > Vlasis Hatzistavrou.
>      >      >
>      >      >
>      >      > Andy Spring wrote:
>      >      >> Hi Dennis, first I am sorry to hear your bad news, but i can
>      >     give you
>      >      >> some suggestion, most of business men are trust parterns,
>     only very
>      >      >> little are frauds, yes, sometimes, it is very difficult
>     to find
>      >     out who
>      >      >> is sincerely and who is not, but you can test them from a
>     very small
>      >      >> order starting after you have dealt many many small business
>      >      >> succesfully, then start big orders or stop contact with them.
>      >      >>
>      >      >> 2009/11/2 <info at dialontel.com <mailto:info at dialontel.com>
>     <mailto:info at dialontel.com <mailto:info at dialontel.com>>
>      >     <mailto:info at dialontel.com <mailto:info at dialontel.com>
>     <mailto:info at dialontel.com <mailto:info at dialontel.com>>>>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>     Hi Andy and Everyone in this Forum,
>      >      >>
>      >      >>     Of course Andy we are very Angry. Last Year in total
>     we lost
>      >     over
>      >      >>     30K USD and Asia Telecom and BroadTelephone 3K USD
>     invoice
>      >      is part
>      >      >>     of it. This has effect our business process to do
>     much more
>      >      >>     verification in giving post pay/prepay and it has
>     become almost
>      >      >>     impossible find out who is geniune and who is not.
>      >      >>
>      >      >>     Even though These two companies are registered in UK
>     and USA its
>      >      >>     managed and owned by Pakistan guys (nothing personal to
>      >      >>     Pakistanies) so my point is we can not judge a
>     company from
>      >     where it
>      >      >>     is registered.
>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>      So I bilieve most effective way to minimize frauds is to
>      >     keep close
>      >      >>     contact with trusted partners and their frauds, so
>     you can
>      >     keep away
>      >      >>     from frauds.
>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>     Thanks,
>      >      >>     Dennis S.
>      >      >>     DialOnTel Team
>      >      >>     <http://www.dialontel/>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>         -------- Original Message --------
>      >      >>         Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] India VoIP termination -
>      >     FRAUD- BE
>      >      >>         Careful
>      >      >>         From: Andy Spring <andyspr at gmail.com
>     <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com>
>      >     <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com>>
>     <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com>
>      >     <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com>>>>
>      >      >>         Date: Sun, November 01, 2009 5:15 am
>      >      >>         To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
>     Discussion
>      >      >>         <asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>
>      >     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>>
>      >      >>         <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>
>      >     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>>>>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>          Haha... Maybe Dennis is very angry with them,
>     but what
>      >     make me
>      >      >>         suprised is that the frauds are from UK and USA,
>     whose
>      >      >>         reputation are good and they also think
>     themselves come with
>      >      >>         good reputation, but also rubbish
>      >      >>
>      >      >>         2009/10/31 <info at dialontel.com
>     <mailto:info at dialontel.com>
>      >     <mailto:info at dialontel.com <mailto:info at dialontel.com>>
>     <mailto:info at dialontel.com <mailto:info at dialontel.com>
>      >     <mailto:info at dialontel.com <mailto:info at dialontel.com>>>>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>             Hi All,
>      >      >>
>      >      >>             DO NOT sell any minutes to BroadTelepone or
>     AsiaTelecom.
>      >      >>             They have a pending invoice to us for last 8
>     months 3000
>      >      >>             USD. Our company name is DialOnTel.  we were
>     seling
>      >     India to
>      >      >>             them. These companies are fraud based in UK
>     and USA.
>      >      >>             AsiaTelecom UK is currently on liquadation.
>      >      >>
>      >      >>             Sikander - Director, Faruk -Tech guy never
>     response
>      >     to our
>      >      >>             calls or emails.
>      >      >>
>      >      >>             DO NOT Give post pay to them.
>      >      >>
>      >      >>             My name is Dennis from DialOnTel.
>      >      >>             dennis at dialontel.com
>     <mailto:dennis at dialontel.com> <mailto:dennis at dialontel.com
>     <mailto:dennis at dialontel.com>>
>      >     <mailto:dennis at dialontel.com <mailto:dennis at dialontel.com>
>     <mailto:dennis at dialontel.com <mailto:dennis at dialontel.com>>>
>      >      >>             info at dialontel.com
>     <mailto:info at dialontel.com> <mailto:info at dialontel.com
>     <mailto:info at dialontel.com>>
>      >     <mailto:info at dialontel.com <mailto:info at dialontel.com>
>     <mailto:info at dialontel.com <mailto:info at dialontel.com>>>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>             Sikander if you see this email you are most
>     welcome to
>      >      >>             contact me as you never response to our
>     emials or calls.
>      >      >>
>      >      >>             Thanks,
>      >      >>             DialOnTel Team
>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>                 -------- Original Message --------
>      >      >>                 Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] India VoIP
>     termination
>      >      >>                 From: Sikander Saeed
>     <sikander at asiatele.net <mailto:sikander at asiatele.net>
>      >     <mailto:sikander at asiatele.net <mailto:sikander at asiatele.net>>
>      >      >>                 <mailto:sikander at asiatele.net
>     <mailto:sikander at asiatele.net>
>      >     <mailto:sikander at asiatele.net <mailto:sikander at asiatele.net>>>>
>      >      >>                 Date: Fri, October 30, 2009 4:04 pm
>      >      >>                 To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
>      >     Discussion
>      >      >>                 <asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>
>      >     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>>
>      >      >>                 <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>
>      >     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>>>>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>                 BroadTelephone is based in USA and involve in
>      >     wholesale
>      >      >>                 and retail VoIP services in USA, Canada
>     and UK since
>      >      >>                 last decade. We are looking for quality
>     route to
>      >     India.
>      >      >>                 Our targets are:
>      >      >>
>      >      >>                 India 919 mobile $0.0110
>      >      >>                 India 9194          $0.0125
>      >      >>                 India ROC  91    $0.0150
>      >      >>                 India Cities          $0.0130
>      >      >>
>      >      >>                 Our daily traffic is about 25,000 minutes
>     per day.
>      >      >>                 Please let us know if you can provide
>     such service.
>      >      >>
>      >      >>                 Sikander Saeed
>      >      >>                 BroadTelephone, Inc.
>      >      >>                 www.broadtelephone.com
>     <http://www.broadtelephone.com>
>      >     <http://www.broadtelephone.com> <http://www.broadtelephone.com/>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>                 Mitul Limbani wrote:
>      >      >>>                 Brian,
>      >      >>>
>      >      >>>                 So if I m correct this would be a one of
>     retail
>      >     customer
>      >      > who needs to
>      >      >>>                 call their indian partner company?
>      >      >>>
>      >      >>>                 Please email me in a bit more detail off the
>      >     list, coz we
>      >      > have helped
>      >      >>>                 several US based companies optimize their
>      >     communication
>      >      > cost to their
>      >      >>>                 indian counter part or indian offshore
>     units.
>      >      >>>
>      >      >>>                 And I think we can help your customer too.
>      >      >>>
>      >      >>>                 Thanks & Regards,
>      >      >>>                 Mitul Limbani,
>      >      >>>                 Founder & CEO,
>      >      >>>                 Enterux Solutions Pvt. Ltd.,
>      >      >>>                 The Enterprise Linux Company (r),
>      >      >>>                 http://www.enterux.com
>     <http://www.enterux.com/>
>      >      >>>                 http://www.entVoice.com
>     <http://www.entvoice.com/>
>      >      >>>
>      >      >>>                 On 27-Oct-2009, at 7:30 AM, "Brian Franklin"
>      >      > <bfranklin at ntginc.net <mailto:bfranklin at ntginc.net>
>     <mailto:bfranklin at ntginc.net <mailto:bfranklin at ntginc.net>>>
>      >     <mailto:bfranklin at ntginc.net <mailto:bfranklin at ntginc.net>
>     <mailto:bfranklin at ntginc.net <mailto:bfranklin at ntginc.net>>>
>      >      >>>                 wrote:
>      >      >>>
>      >      >>>
>      >      >>>>                 I have an executive that needs low cost
>      >     minutes to a
>      >      > partner firm in
>      >      >>>>                 India.  Clear calls and low cost is the
>      >     primary concern.
>      >      >>>>
>      >      >>>>                 Brian
>      >      >>>>
>      >      >>>>                 -----Original Message-----
>      >      >>>>                 From:
>     asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com>
>      >     <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com>>
>      >      > <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com>
>      >     <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com>>>
>      >      >>>>                
>     [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com>
>      >     <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com>>] On Behalf
>      >      > Of mtlvoip
>      >      >>>>                 Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 8:48 PM
>      >      >>>>                 To: Commercial and Business-Oriented
>     Asterisk
>      >     Discussion
>      >      >>>>                 Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] USA to India
>      >      >>>>
>      >      >>>>
>      >      >>>>                 with what kind of features and in which
>     level
>      >     of price
>      >      > are your
>      >      >>>>                 looking
>      >      >>>>
>      >      >>>>                 for?
>      >      >>>>
>      >      >>>>                
>     --------------------------------------------------
>      >      >>>>                 From: "Brian Franklin"
>     <bfranklin at ntginc.net <mailto:bfranklin at ntginc.net>
>      >     <mailto:bfranklin at ntginc.net <mailto:bfranklin at ntginc.net>>>
>      >      > <mailto:bfranklin at ntginc.net <mailto:bfranklin at ntginc.net>
>     <mailto:bfranklin at ntginc.net <mailto:bfranklin at ntginc.net>>>
>      >      >>>>                 Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:32 PM
>      >      >>>>                 To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented
>     Asterisk
>      >      > Discussion"
>      >      >>>>                 <asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>
>      >     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>>>
>      >      > <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>
>      >     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com
>     <mailto:asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>>>
>      >      >>>>                 Subject: [asterisk-biz] USA to India
>      >      >>>>
>      >      >>>>
>      >      >>>>>                 Looking for quality international SIP
>      >      > termination...particularly to
>      >      >>>>>                 India.
>      >      >>>>>
>      >      >>>>>                 Any suggestions?
>      >      >>>>>
>      >      >>>>>
>      >      >>>>>                
>     _______________________________________________
>      >      >>>>>                 --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by
>      >      > http://www.api-digital.com <http://www.api-digital.com/>--
>      >      >>>>>                 asterisk-biz mailing list
>      >      >>>>>                 To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>      >      >>>>>
>      >      http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>      >      >>>>>
>      >      >>>>>
>      >      >>>>                
>     _______________________________________________
>      >      >>>>                 --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by
>      >      > http://www.api-digital.com <http://www.api-digital.com/>--
>      >      >>>>                 asterisk-biz mailing list
>      >      >>>>                 To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>      >      >>>>
>      >     http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>      >      >>>>
>      >      >>>>
>      >      >>>>
>      >      >>>>                
>     _______________________________________________
>      >      >>>>                 --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by
>      >      > http://www.api-digital.com <http://www.api-digital.com/>--
>      >      >>>>                 asterisk-biz mailing list
>      >      >>>>                 To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>      >      >>>>
>      >     http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>      >      >>>>
>      >      >>>                
>     _______________________________________________
>      >      >>>                 --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by
>      >      > http://www.api-digital.com <http://www.api-digital.com/>--
>      >      >>>                 asterisk-biz mailing list
>      >      >>>                 To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>      >      >>>
>      >      http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>      >      >>>
>      >      >>>
>      >      >>>
>      >      >
>      >    
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>      >      >>                
>     _______________________________________________
>      >      >>                 --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by
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>      >      > <http://www.api-digital.com--/>
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>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>             _______________________________________________
>      >      >>             --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by
>      >      >>             http://www.api-digital.com--
>      >     <http://www.api-digital.com--/>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>             asterisk-biz mailing list
>      >      >>             To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
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>     http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>         --
>      >      >>         andy
>      >      >>         andyspr at gmail.com <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com>
>     <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com>>
>      >     <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com>
>     <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com>>>
>      >      >>
>      >      >
>      >    
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>      >      >>         --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by
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>     <http://www.api-digital.com--/>
>      >      >>
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>      >      >>         To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
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>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>     _______________________________________________
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>      >     http://www.api-digital.com--
>      >      >>     <http://www.api-digital.com--/>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>     asterisk-biz mailing list
>      >      >>     To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
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>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >      >> --
>      >      >> andy
>      >      >> andyspr at gmail.com <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com>
>     <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com>>
>      >     <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com>
>     <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com <mailto:andyspr at gmail.com>>>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >      >>
>      >    
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>      >      >>
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>      >      >>
>      >      >> asterisk-biz mailing list
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>      >      >
>      >      > _______________________________________________
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>     http://www.api-digital.com--
>      >      >
>      >      > asterisk-biz mailing list
>      >      > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
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>      >      >
>      >      >
>      >      > _______________________________________________
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>     http://www.api-digital.com--
>      >      >
>      >      > asterisk-biz mailing list
>      >      > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
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>      >      >
>      >
>      >     _______________________________________________
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>     http://www.api-digital.com--
>      >
>      >     asterisk-biz mailing list
>      >     To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
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>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > --
>      > Thank you,
>      >
>      > -Wes-
> 
>     _______________________________________________
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> 
>     asterisk-biz mailing list
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Thank you,
> 
> -Wes-



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