[asterisk-biz] Manners (was: Re: "Whats New at Digium the Asterisk Company")

Bill Michaelson bill at cosi.com
Wed Nov 14 12:39:03 CST 2007


Amen.  It's unfortunate that we need to be reminded (or in some cases, 
informed) of the true meaning of political correctness, a phrase which 
is really only a dysphemism for a form of common decency.  One doesn't 
have to be a prig to appreciate this.

I too would prefer not seeing this stuff dumped in the list, but not at 
the expense of leaving the offensive material unchallenged.


Matthew Rubenstein wrote:
> 	People call something that isn't a sexual human "gay" to insult it,
> because lots of people have treated gay people as really bad things. We
> don't say a bargainer tried to "jew us down" any more, either, even
> though "Jew" isn't a bad word when referring to Jewish people (except
> when people mean it that way).
>
> 	When you use the term for a group of people as an insult to something,
> you are insulting those people. If people called some things "christian"
> as an insult, for example, the way people have called things "gay" as an
> insult for a long time, then "that thing is christian beyond words"
> would insult not just the thing, but christians, too.
>
> 	This is a basic point of elementary manners. Ask yourself if you would
> feel safe in a gay bar full of gay bikers, asked if you like the new
> version of Windows, and you replied that you didn't, LOUDLY, saying
> "THAT IS SO GAY". Would you feel safe? Would your rationalizations
> protect you?
>
> 	You're one of those people who thinks you've carved out a whole zone of
> bad behavior because you call rules against it "politically" correct, as
> if the behavior is actually correct, but there's some arbitrary rule
> against it. "Politically correct" refers to all kinds of correct
> behavior that had to be forced on bigots by oppressed groups, because
> bigots, usually in the majority, could be stopped only by a "political"
> process, like long appeals like this one to people's sense of decency
> buried under their convenient traditional bigotry.
>
> 	People like you have long insisted from your conveniently protected
> roles in society that all kinds of ethnic slurs are OK. But their common
> use is a reminder to people they insult that the insults are accepted,
> will not be opposed, that the insulter has power to offend that the
> insulted does not have power to stop. The reality is referred to by the
> insult. To remind everyone that the target is an acceptable victim,
> which perpetuates the abuse. Including physical and political abuse. Gay
> people, even in America, are often second class citizens, with all kinds
> of rights and privileges denied them. And your calling something "gay"
> as an arbitrary insult to it is helping keep it that way. If you don't
> understand that, it's because you understand nothing about politics or
> how large groups of people operate. And now you're defending your
> ignorance, just because it's convenient to you.
>
> 	I didn't say that making that slur was the sole action keeping everyone
> down. But it is part of it. And people failing to confront those little,
> everyday abuses is the essential part of it. Every time a White person
> in Alabama let a bus driver direct a Black person to the back of the
> bus, or any other of the little acceptable codes of racism was indulged
> rather than confronted, the racism was kept propped up by the person
> going along as much as by the person enforcing it.
>
> 	I also didn't say anything about "Christmas". But your bringing it up
> refers to you acting like there's some kind of "war on Christmas", the
> idiotic culture war that lets privileged people like you act like
> victims, when you're not. A sad perversion of what Christmas is supposed
> to stand for: the birth of someone who brought compassion for everyone,
> no matter their station, regardless of how socially acceptable it was to
> treat some people like animals or objects.
>
> 	Bigotry is *real*. It ruins lives. Just because you're privileged
> enough to feel safe from it doesn't mean you are, doesn't mean it's OK
> to do it. Just because you're at the end of an Internet wire doesn't
> mean you can do wrong without consequence. You're talking in a large
> group of adults, and there are consequences to your speech. Learn how to
> behave, or keep your abuse and your excuses for it to yourself.
>
> 	BTW, ending your excuses with an insult and a smiley doesn't make it
> OK. And your saying that your bigotry is no big deal, just because *you*
> are so casual about it, doesn't mean it really is like that.
>
>
> On Wed, 2007-11-14 at 00:48 -0500, Nick Seraphin wrote:
>   
>> Oh come on.. get serious!  Or maybe I should say, "loosen up!"
>>
>> 1) Since when is the word "gay" considered a bigoted slur?
>>
>> 2) He didn't say a person was gay, he said a product was gay.
>>
>> 3) Even if you apply it in a "person" context, last I checked, homosexuals
>> refer to themselves as "gay", so it's obviously not a "bad word".  Unless
>> you have something against gay people, Matthew?
>>
>> 4) "gay" has multiple meanings, it wasn't invented for the purpose of
>> identifying homosexuals, either in a positive, negative, or neutral
>> manner.  Calling it a slur is worse than using the word the way Alex
>> did... because you're basically saying that ANYONE who uses the word
>> "gay", including homosexual people themselves, are using a slur.  
>>
>> 5) It is absolutely insane how people overreact and take everything so
>> personally when someone doesn't use 100% political correctness.  God help
>> us if Alex says "Merry Christmas" next month or tells a joke about a
>> midget that walked into a bar, blah blah blah.  You might have a coronary.
>>
>> Now if he had called someone a "fag", then you would have ground to stand
>> on -- that could be considered a slur by some people these days.
>> (Cigarette references not withstanding)
>>
>> Relax and don't be so uptight.  It's not like he insulted your dead
>> mother's honor or something.  Sheesh. :-)
>>
>> -- Nick
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007, Matthew Rubenstein wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> 	There's a difference between slang and a bigoted slur. If you don't
>>> know the difference, you should learn it now. I don't need to be a saint
>>> to point out basic manners of speaking in public. If you think so little
>>> of this -biz community, please just stay out of it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 2007-11-13 at 16:06 -0500, Alex Pilosov wrote:
>>>       
>>>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007, Matthew Rubenstein wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> 	Not only is that comment useless in pure business terms, but using
>>>>> the word "gay" like that poisons business relationships, and demeans the
>>>>> entire community.
>>>>>           
>>>> Blah blah blah. Look at the halo above Matthew's head.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes slang is the only thing that adequately captures the inherent 
>>>> stupidity. 
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, this is ridiculous. Business relationships? Entire "Community"? On 
>>>> asterisk-biz? You must be joking. -biz has become a soapbox for Rehan 
>>>> AhmedWallahBismillah etc and a kindergarden of tin-can-and-asterisk 
>>>> providers.
>>>>
>>>> -alex
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> (C) Matthew Rubenstein
>>>
>>>
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