[asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk

Tue Mar 20 21:51:29 MST 2007

> I think you discovered there are a number of facets to making the switch.The complexity level is a bit more than I first anticipated, but its a new technology I'm not familiar with which is cool, I'm learning.> Perhaps it would be interesting to compare something like asterisk and> Nortel to knowledgetree/alfresco and SharePoint?At first I was looking at exchange server and possible open source alternatives to that, but then came across Asterisk and decided it was more interesting. I haven't heard of Knowledtree before but it looks like a cool revision system for documents and I'll be making note of it in case i need such a program in the future.> IMHO your test case is pretty sane.  It is possible to use existing Nortel> handsets with an * system, but the cost of doing so is pretty much a wash> with buying all new IP phones.  You can get a nice IP phone set for> $200-$300 USD, where the box to use the Nortel handsets is in the $2,500> ballpark.  Replacement Nortel sets are "dumb" and still fall in the $300> range.  Don't forget about the eBay sale of the old system ;)Ah, good, I'm glad to hear its sane! If the equipment to support the existing handsets is more expensive than the new equipment and a set of new IP phones, or comparable, than it is a wash. And I think some "eBay" asset recovery isn't totally out of the question in this case study.> There are also a lot of intangibles to consider.  The backing of "qualified> engineers" for companies like Avaya, Cisco, etc. vs. the incredible> flexibility of an open source solution.  There is also the possibility that> the open source flexibility would give a business some kind of competitive> advantage they would not normally have -  depending on the nature of the> business.  Agreed.> If you can find a "scrappy" consultancy that knows their stuff cold the open> source alternative may become very attractive.  > > There is a lot of conjecture here.Yes, I know, but it is a term paper, and so I think I can make a couple assumptions without losing my credibility :)I want to show the superior feature set, but bottom line, I'm hoping to show its cheaper, without losing performance or support.> The most unfortunate thing is that a lot of companies are not interested in> taking the chance.  They want something that says "Cisco" on it because they> think that is the only way they are guaranteed support.I was even discussing this with a friend, and it was difficult to convince them that an opensource solution would even have such a thing as support. I suppose if my case study company has no IT expertise whatsoever, and don't care about features, the deciding factor would be cost and support. And in a real world situation I can see Cisco winning out to Asterisk/Support company just by name. But in my case study, the other factors get their fair share!Thanks for the comments!> From: smith at ipmvs.com> To: asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com> Subject: RE: [asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 01:50:02 +0000> > I think you discovered there are a number of facets to making the switch.> > Perhaps it would be interesting to compare something like asterisk and> Nortel to knowledgetree/alfresco and SharePoint?> > It is probably safe to point out that open source often 'displaces' costs.> Shifting the costs from licensing to implementation and from products to> people.> > IMHO your test case is pretty sane.  It is possible to use existing Nortel> handsets with an * system, but the cost of doing so is pretty much a wash> with buying all new IP phones.  You can get a nice IP phone set for> $200-$300 USD, where the box to use the Nortel handsets is in the $2,500> ballpark.  Replacement Nortel sets are "dumb" and still fall in the $300> range.  Don't forget about the eBay sale of the old system ;)> > There are also a lot of intangibles to consider.  The backing of "qualified> engineers" for companies like Avaya, Cisco, etc. vs. the incredible> flexibility of an open source solution.  There is also the possibility that> the open source flexibility would give a business some kind of competitive> advantage they would not normally have -  depending on the nature of the> business.  > > If you can find a "scrappy" consultancy that knows their stuff cold the open> source alternative may become very attractive.  > > There is a lot of conjecture here.> > The most unfortunate thing is that a lot of companies are not interested in> taking the chance.  They want something that says "Cisco" on it because they> think that is the only way they are guaranteed support.> > > -----Original Message-----> > From: Byron Pile [mailto:bpile at hotmail.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:22 PM> > To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion> > Subject: RE: [asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk> > > > Once I get a better idea of what the telecom here provides in > > their contract it might be easier to see what I should > > include in the Asterisk based system.> > > > Is switchvox a proprietary system? Or are they based on > > Asterisk? They don't mention asterisk on the site anywhere. > > I've also noticed Digium offers a support service plan. > > Perhaps this with an estimated initial setup cost would be a > > good comparison to the telecom offering.> > > > I really want to highlight the flexibility and also feature > > set of Asterisk.> > > > Thanks again for your comments!> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > > > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:34:22 -0400> > > From: stotaro at totarotechnologies.com> > > To: asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com> > > Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk> > > > > > The bottom line is that you will save money or at the very > > least, over > > > the course of a year or two, break even. Considering some > > proposals I > > > did on NEC IPK systems several years ago, an eight port conference > > > bridge card was $5,000, another $5,000 for an eight port VoIP card > > > MGCP, $3,000 for a four port voicemail card, add some other feature > > > and you get the point. Also, support contracts were > > something to the > > > tune of $4 per port per month, that includes all ports (concurrent > > > voicemail access> > > + phones + PSTN + conference bridges). So lets say that "whatever" > > > company has 4 FXO, 16 FXS, and 4 voicemail, that is a total of 24 > > > ports X $4 = $96/mo X 12mo = $1,152 and that only included > > very specific limits.> > > > > > This is all free in Asterisk. You could purchase a > > Switchvox (or some > > > other turnkey) system pretty cheaply, have all of those > > costly add-on > > > features included, they offer support via SSH and over the > > phone, and > > > with IP, MACs are a breeze. A low level A+ tech can do it, unlike a > > > traditional system where a telephone guy has to come out > > with a butt > > > set, toner, and punch down tool. Most proprietary systems are not > > > exactly easy to program even in a "Turnkey" solution.> > > > > > You have many variables to look at but I think that your > > paper will be > > > a very interesting look into a paradigm shift.> > > > > > Thanks,> > > Steve> > > > > > Byron Pile wrote:> > > > I was going to assume that yes, there are Linux people on > > staff and > > > > that they could be taken away to set up and support asterisk. But > > > > because I was comparing it to a turnkey solution that > > most likely is > > > > including service as part of the contract, comparing it > > to a similar > > > > contract based asterisk setup makes more sense. However, I guess > > > > when starting this I was hoping to eliminate "license" > > fees from the > > > > open source solution, but if I'm using a small company, I > > think its > > > > more realistic to assume they don't have a support > > department ready > > > > to devote man hours to an asterisk system when they were using a > > > > turnkey solution before.> > > >> > > > Thanks for clarifying the handsets, I was considering using SIP > > > > phones in the case study, but thought it might be possible to > > > > "reuse" some existing equipment. This is also a > > technology upgrade in this case.> > > >> > > > I was going to assume that the workers were just as productive as > > > > before, but the ROI would come mostly from reduction in operating > > > > costs (hopefully). If they don't have any "linux people" > > on staff, > > > > this makes it harder to include some of the open source benefits > > > > like, fixing bugs, adding features and the other flexibility that > > > > Asterisk would provide over using the Norstar.> > > >> > > > Thanks for the response Steve, I have more research to do > > obviously!> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------> > > > ----> > > > Subject: RE: [asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk> > > > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:59:03 -0500> > > > From: stotaro at asteriskhelpdesk.com> > > > To: asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com> > > >> > > > For several varying quotes, one could go to www.buyerzone.com > > > > <http://www.buyerzone.com/> and put in exactly what you > > specified. > > > > You will get several vendors proposing different systems, prices, > > > > and most importantly, service contracts. It does cost each vendor > > > > about $25 dollars to buy your "lead" so be aware that you are > > > > costing them money by doing this. Whether or not that is > > ethical, is > > > > your decision. I am just pointing out that "one could do > > it". Make > > > > sure to include that you need a conference bridge that can handle > > > > unlimited callers, also unlimited voicemail ports, > > support SIP, and > > > > also consider scaling. That should freak them out.> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Does "whatever" company have people on staff that know Linux and > > > > have time to learn and support Asterisk? What is the cost > > of taking > > > > them from what they usually would be doing to work on the > > Asterisk > > > > system?> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > I would suggest going with SIP phones and a four port FXO board. > > > > You could run both systems side by side until you are > > ready to cut > > > > over and then just switch your four POTs lines.> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Most proprietary systems use digital sets so you cannot use a > > > > mutiport FXS board. I have used proprietary handset > > gateways such as > > > > Citel and my person experience was very very poor.> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > How much ROI is going to depend on increased worker productivity > > > > which is fairly hard to figure out and also ongoing > > average costs of > > > > MACs (cost of Moves Adds Changes) as well as support contracts.> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Thanks,> > > > Steve Totaro> > > > http://www.asteriskhelpdesk.com> > > > KB3OPB> > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------> > > > ----> > > >> > > > *From:* asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com> > > > [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces at lists.digium.com] *On Behalf > > Of *Byron > > > > Pile> > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:28 PM> > > > *To:* asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com> > > > *Subject:* [asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > I thought the biz list was most appropriate for this. > > Hope I'm not > > > > wrong!> > > >> > > > I'm trying to write a term paper on adopting an open > > source solution > > > > over a commercial solution and comparing the cost.> > > > Specifically if a legacy system is in use already, when will the > > > > initial investment of hardware for an asterisk based > > system pay off > > > > against the licensing fees of a proprietary system. After > > reading a > > > > good chunk of the free Asterisk book "Asterisk:The Future of > > > > Telephony" I think that Asterisk is an excellent topic for the > > > > paper.> > > >> > > > I'm new to telephony stuff so bear with me if my > > questions are a bit > > > > dumb, I've tried to do quite a bit of research and reading before > > > > posting to the mail lists. So my idea was to use the fake company > > > > "whatever" and they have 15 telephones and are currently using a > > > > Norstar ICS with 4 incoming lines and 15 internal lines > > and I would > > > > like to switch this over to an asterisk based system.> > > >> > > > The reason for choosing the Norstar as this is a turnkey solution > > > > provided by a large local telecom so I will be able to get some > > > > pricing information for them fairly easily and I think it > > does what > > > > a 15 telephone small office might need...I'm open to a better > > > > suggestion if the Norstar is a poor choice.> > > >> > > > My quick questions are...is it possible that the handsets > > being used > > > > with a Norstar could be converted and used with the > > Asterisk system? > > > > (a bit of asset recovery)> > > >> > > > A system consisting of a suitable linux server running > > Asterisk and > > > > a Digium TDM2441B PCI Card 16FXS / 4FXO would be a suitable > > > > replacement and could deliver the same > > performance/functions as the > > > > Norstar system?> > > >> > > > I'm going to try and be as thorough as possible in assessing the > > > > costs in switching to this system. The most obvious being > > some new > > > > hardware, but also, downtime, training, support costs, contract > > > > penalties (if there are any) etc....But this is a term > > paper and a > > > > highly hypothetical situation. And I know my questions are a bit > > > > general, but the paper will probably be kept quite > > general. I hope I > > > > can learn more about this cool app!> > > >> > > > Thanks!> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------> > > > ----> > > >> > > > Live Search Maps - find all the local information you need, right > > > > when you need it. Find it!> > > > <http://maps.live.com/?icid=wlmtag2&FORM=MGAC01>> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------> > > > ---- i'm making a difference. Make every IM count for the > > cause of > > > > your choice. Join now!> > > > > > <http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?href=h> > > > ttp://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=wlmailtagline>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________> > > --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --> > > > > > asterisk-biz mailing list> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:> > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz> > > > > > ________________________________> > > > Your friends are close to you. Keep them that way. > > <http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx> > > > _______________________________________________> --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --> > asterisk-biz mailing list> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:>    http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
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