[Asterisk-biz] AW: Asterisk-Biz Digest, Vol 17, Issue 51

Sun Dec 18 17:26:38 MST 2005

Hi all,

( firstly pardon me for my english, and if there are some mistakes in
grammar)

I read all and have to admit, that here in germany the situation seems
to
be simular. Getting access to telephoneline is one thing, getting a
global
player being your own ISP (e.g.) is hard to do. 

I was trying to raise a DUN for people who don’t get broadband in
germany.
So my thinking was how to get rid of technical affords of doing this and
Came to the point of doing this totally via sip. ( Think does not work ?
)

As i have startet my trys on developing i have noticed the affordness
and
The market behind this and also noticed that only my development - tries
Got me to the point that none of the german SIP-provider want to play
with me anymore ... :-(

That’s discusting... I by a service and want to use it, but when I try
to
Get a comepative they are just killing the service.

So now I am looking for SIP-Provider, that support special CODEC and
would like to help me on an market that is very lucrative.

If anyone from you in this list has got any ideas on solving this it
would be to his own benefit. ( In words : Dollars )

Regards

Norbert
GERMANY

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Betreff: Asterisk-Biz Digest, Vol 17, Issue 51

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Today's Topics:

   1. Asterisk automation. (Sergey Kuznetsov)
   2. Re: Israel to block International VoIP calls? (C F)
   3. Re: Israel to block International VoIP calls? (Jean-Michel Hiver)
   4. Rates for Myanmar (Nick Skass)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:10:02 -0500
From: Sergey Kuznetsov <asterisk_biz at deeptown.org>
Subject: [Asterisk-biz] Asterisk automation.
To: asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com
Message-ID: <43A4E11A.3050606 at deeptown.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi there,

If someone needs very professional remote help in AGI/FastAGI 
development than my team is an ideal
candidate for that.

We are located in Canada, therefore our hourly rate is lower, but code 
quality is a top-notch and we work very fast.

If interested party will have any question, do not hesitate to send me 
email off-list.

Respectfully,

Sergey.

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:20:13 -0500
From: C F <shmaltz at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-biz] Israel to block International VoIP calls?
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
	<asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>
Message-ID:
	<81000b5a0512172020x36cd945bxe68d815e688e9caf at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 12/17/05, Yair Hakak <yair at hakak.com> wrote:
> see my comments inline.
>
> On 12/17/05, Jean-Michel Hiver <jhiver at ykoz.net> wrote:
> >
> > >4. it's all well and good to say "anyone can open a VOIP company"
but
> > >in a country without much competition that doesnt work.
> > >
> > If it doesn't work then you don't need to regulate it. The market
will
> > do it. I think your argument is clearly fallacious and there must be
> > another reason pushing your agenda.
> >
>
> uh...no. see below. if you think i have another reason i'd love to
> hear it. we are not the finance ministry, and it's not our job to
> bring in government revenue, if that's the insinuation.
> >
> > >say i want to open a vonage-type service in the US, i have 2
options. either i
> > >register as a CLEC, or i have a relationship with a CLEC, who
treats
> > >me as a large customer. the second option is not viable in israel,
> > >because as a new VOIP entrant you're not going to find a CLEC who
will
> > >work with you.
> > >
> > >
> > Why not? Just order some PRIs and start working. As I said above, if
> > it's not profitable, then you don't need to regulate it.
> >
> >
> that's exactly the point. NO ONE WILL SELL YOU PRIS because you will
> be their competitors. its not a matter of being profitable, it's a
> matter of the incumbent LEC applying monopolistic power towards you.
> if, on the other hand, you have a license, the incumbent doesnt have a
> choice, and has to sell you PRIs.
>

Why not? here in the US every one is intested in selling me a PRI even
though I want to resell it and become their competitor. I see this
argument being totaly wrong, if one doens't sell me a PRI, then their
competitor will, if the competitor doesn't, then someone will open a
compnay (with a CLEC license) to sell PRIs to all of those that
couldn't get it from the competitor because they will become
competitors. Selling to someone that will resell your product, even if
they end up being your comptition, is called free marketing, since
your customer/competition is doing the marketing for you. Restricting
this benefits *ONLY* the big companies.

> > >so, we're left with registering as a CLEC, or, in our terms,
getting a license.
> > >
> > >
> > I suspect that CLECs actually /like/ it that you need to pay a
license
> > and taxes on call termination in order to be a telco - especially if
you
> > make it a legal requirement for international call termination.
> >
> trust me, they don't. they'd much rather we left them alone. remember
> also that in israel a CLEC cannot be an international provider, and
> vice versa. There is total separation between markets, mainly to
> prevent the former monopolist from using it's monopolistic profits in
> one market to kill another. the international calling providers (who
> are also the large ISPs) are in a very competitive market.
>
> > It raises entry barriers, which means less competition, which in
turn
> > means more profit. It also means less jobs and less a competitive
> > economy but I'm not going to give a class on the benefits of free
> > markets here.
> >
> I am a regulatory economist, with an emphasis on economist. no offense
> meant, but i could give the class.
>
> >
> > >remember also that there's no unbundling here (it's not a big
country
> > >and unbundling is not exactly an unqualified success elsewhere),
which
> > >makes things kind of different.
> > >
> > >
> > I fail to see how. Clearly the "no grey routing" policy is a
government
> > enforced market distortion, in favor of big business and government
> > taxes and detrimential to small businesses and entrepreneurs.
> >
> > I think the parrallel with Cuba is quite realistic since grey
routing is
> > illegal there too. Same with India and many developing or still very
> > regulated countries, really.
> >
> > As for the size of the country, I think the argument is moot too. EU
> > policies have forced countries to deregulate their markets, and I am
> > unaware of small countries (such as belgium) having major issues
with
> > that. If anything, telecoms are booming pretty much in every
deregulated
> > country I can think of - wether it's big or small.
> >
> > In fact they are also booming in other regulated countries under
various
> > guises / covers. Call centers come to mind.
> >
> > Personally I am happy to live in a country where the telco have been
> > (thanks to EU policing) heavily deregulated and that let me the
chance
> > to start a business in this industry and build myself some kind of a
> > future rather than being unemployed or worse, being a work grunt for
a
> > big company just because I can't afford a license.
> >
> >
> > >as i said before, i'm happy to talk to anyone about these issues,
off
> > >list, at any time, i'm in kind of an interesting position as a voip
> > >enthusiast and a regulator, and i think a dialogue between the
> > >regulators and the open-source voip community is a good thing.
> > >
> > >
> > Well I think 911 type service is very important and is often seen as
a
> > high barrier of entry. Having a clean and inexpensive way of dealing
> > with this would be welcome for newcomers in the telco industry.
> >
> our way is free :-)
>
> just out of curiosity, what country are you from?
>
> again, please take all my comments as part of a constructive dialogue,
> no offense meant.
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 12:25:16 +0400
From: Jean-Michel Hiver <jhiver at ykoz.net>
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-biz] Israel to block International VoIP calls?
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
	<asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com>
Message-ID: <43A51CEC.3040408 at ykoz.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Yair Hakak a écrit :

>sorry, we were talking about 2 different things. i was talking about
>local numbering and wireline-replacement service, and you were
>referring to my original post about grey-route termination.
>
>there are good reasons not to allow grey-route termination, among them:
>1. the possbility of undercutting the licensed interconnect scheme this
way.
>
But you said "it's not our job tobring in government revenue, if that's 
the insinuation", so I guess that should not be taken in consideration.

I told you there was another reason pushing your agenda. Or maybe the 
licenses are free? Mhhh. Doubt /that/ !

>2. LI (legal intercept) -which none of us, including myself, like, but
>which as a regulator i do have to deal with.
>  
>
I don't need a license in order to cooperate with the police.

In fact as a little story the police phoned me yesterday because of 
somebody placing malevolent calls through my network. They thought it 
was me. They asked me what I was doing which I explained. Then they 
asked me if they could have access to the CDRs and I told them that I 
would do it for specific numbers and at specific times, and only with a 
written, signed and stamped police order to do so.

And that was it.

Besides, your logic means that you will probably have to outlaw skype 
and VPN software as well.

>there are some others (mainly involving cellular networks), but those
>are the main ones.  and, by the way, many (but as you pointed out
>probably not all) of the piratical operators are truly piratical, i.e.
>they don't pay taxes on wages and benefits, simply because they are
>not recognized as corporate entities by law. many of them are "fly by
>night" types, which is a problem in and of itself, i.e. stability of
>supply to avoid wild fluctuations in price.
>  
>
Exactly my point. If you outlaw them, how do you expect them to pay 
taxes and cooperate with law enforcement authorities? You basically 
force them in being "piratical entities" and you are responsible for 
those wild fluctuations in price.

Grey routing consists of:

- Buying minutes at price X (like you would buy potatoes)
- Selling minutes at price X + Y (like you would sell potatoes)
- Transporting / Delivering minutes to your client using the internet 
(like you would use a truck to ship potatoes)

I don't see why it should be outlawed - it's just bloody COMMERCE.

Trust me, if you needed to pay a hefty license to buy, sell and 
transport potatoes, those will be a lot more expensive. But maybe that's

the way it works in Israel by the way, I have no idea :)

>on a different note, how does telecom regulation work on Reunion
>island? is it the same as in france or are there local regulations? is
>there competition?
>  
>
Same as in France. There are 2 mobile phones operators. As for 
landlines, there are France Telecom (historic operator), Outremer 
Telecom and XTS Networks.

There are also VoIP companies starting to mushroom, including me. Some 
of them have started to apply for L-33-1 licenses on their own because 
it forces France Telecom to sell them direct interco at cost. And in 
fact I plan to do the same thing next year.

I guess it's not bad for an island with only 800,000 people on it.

So you see, unlicensed businesses can eventually grow into licensed ones

if you give them some time to mature and grow. I have only started my 
business a year ago.

Give your businesses a chance. I'm sure that there is plenty of talent 
in your country which only waits your go to flourish and grow.

Cheers,
Jean-Michel.

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 11:45:50 +0000
From: Nick Skass <nick at opensol.org>
Subject: [Asterisk-biz] Rates for Myanmar
To: asterisk-biz at lists.digium.com
Message-ID: <20051218114550.GA5193 at oldflame.stephye.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'm looking for best rates for Myanmar.  Preferred termination over IAX 
or SIP.

------------------------------

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